Resolution or Evolution? What 40 Years in Real Estate Teaches You About the Next Market Cycle

Real estate success isn’t built on trends or predictions—it’s built on judgment, discipline, and relationships that compound over time. In this episode of Real EstateAF (And Finance), we sit down with Kimberly Howell, San Antonio native, veteran real estate broker, relocation expert, and long-time industry leader, to break down what 40+ years in real estate reveals about the next market cycle.

Kimberly shares her journey from construction sites and research environments to founding and scaling her own brokerage—and why, after more than two decades of independence, she chose to return to Keller Williams Legacy as an owner. The lesson is clear: relationships outperform rates, and trust—earned through consistency and transparency—outlasts every market headline.

We dive into hard-earned lessons from the 2008 housing crash, including a holiday-weekend closing that never funded after a lender vanished. It’s a reminder that deals aren’t done until the wire clears—and that fear-driven media narratives often lack the context professionals must provide. Kimberly also unpacks the growing complexity of estate sales, family dynamics, and the quiet counseling work experienced agents do behind the scenes while navigating grief, conflict, and financial stress.

Instead of generic market commentary, this conversation focuses on precision education: addressing the exact fear a buyer or seller brings—interest rates, appraisals, job security, timelines—rather than reacting to noise. We also explore high-stakes corporate and professional sports relocations, and what true white-glove service looks like when privacy, speed, and trust are non-negotiable.

Looking ahead to 2025–2026, Kimberly outlines a practical roadmap for agents and consumers alike: return to fundamentals, use technology as leverage (not a hiding place), prioritize conversations over content, set realistic showing windows, price honestly, and communicate clearly about condition and expectations. On timing, the guidance is grounded—buy the right home when it fits, improve the rate later if possible, but never force a bad decision to chase a market headline.

For long-term wealth, the conclusion is firm: real estate remains one of the most accessible and durable wealth-building tools available—when approached with patience, education, and integrity.

If you value substance over sizzle and want real insight into real estate market cycles, hit play.
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00:00 – Why “Getting Better Every Day” Still Wins in Real Estate
02:15 – Kimberly Howell’s Path into Real Estate (Before the Internet Era)
06:40 – Building a Brokerage & Choosing Independence
11:10 – Why Kimberly Returned to Keller Williams Legacy
15:20 – The 2008 Crash: Lessons You Only Learn the Hard Way
20:05 – When Closings Don’t Fund (And What Agents Miss)

Chapters

• 0:00 Daily Improvement Mantra
• 0:39 New Year Toast And Guest Intro
• 3:24 Kimberly’s Roots And Early Industry Exposure
• 6:15 Learning By Shadowing And First Contracts
• 10:15 Launching A Brokerage And Market Cycles
• 13:09 2008 Shock: Lenders Vanish Overnight
• 17:20 Media Fear vs. Market Reality
• 21:10 Estates, Family Dynamics, And Complex Deals
• 24:50 Spurs Relocation Stories And Relationships
• 28:54 Why Return To Keller Williams
• 33:20 Office Hunt Chaos And Ownership Opportunity
• 37:18 Mentoring, Relocation Training, And Giving Back
• 41:12 Back To Basics For 2025 And Beyond
• 45:05 Tech As Tool, Not Replacement
• 49:18 Rapid Fire: Hard Lessons And Client Myths
• 54:42 Buy Now Or Wait And Wealth Building
• 58:13 Full-Commitment Career Advice And Closing CTA
• 1:03:35 Daily Improvement Reminder

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

At the end of every day, look at yourself in the mirror and ask, did I get better today? Monday, get better. Tuesday, get better. Wednesday, get better. If you do that for five years, ten years, fifteen years, how much better will you be? Are you getting better every single day? That's the real question. And it all comes down to taking small steps. You don't have to accomplish everything in one day or even one week. Just focus on getting a little better every single day.

Mark Jones: 0:39

And welcome back to another episode of Real Estate AF, where the AF stands for and finance. And I'm your host, Mark Jones, and we are powered by Lone Bot. Smarter mortgage matching now available on the App Store and Google Play. And first off, I want to wish everybody a happy new year. This is going to be a special episode with a special guest. And as I introduce this guest, I think it's probably customary that I pop this bad boy. Let's see if I can do it without breaking stuff.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08

You'll shoot your eye out, kid.

Mark Jones: 1:09

That's what they say. Okay, we made it work. So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce Kimberly Howell. Kimberly, how are you?

SPEAKER_01: 1:20

Hello. Good to see you. I'm I'm super excited. And I love you're starting out the podcast with a toast with champagne. Just a little bit of something.

Mark Jones: 1:31

I noticed on yours that uh you guys started out with a couple of shots.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35

Yes, we we do Platinum Patron. That is my my favorite cocktail, if you will. And so we always, every guest so far, we're doing a shot of the uh Silver, not actually not Silver, Platinum Patron. So we started off with that, and it it seems to kind of help things along, if you know what I mean.

Mark Jones: 1:51

I tell you what, we actually did the same thing our first maybe hundred episodes. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. And it helped not only me, but the guests kind of calm it down.

SPEAKER_01: 2:02

So far, literally every guest has said that. They said, you know what? You because I had told them, I said, just it'll be fine. I said, we're gonna do a shot and you're gonna be good. And they're like, ugh. And then a lot of them said, you know, they were fine until about like right before we were starting, and then the reality of it. And then they said, Oh my gosh, I couldn't breathe. I couldn't talk, you know, they were really scared. But then they did the shot. And like I said, that platinum patron is so smooth. I mean, it's like butter. So I mean, it just goes down. And and literally they said, as soon as that went in, they're like, oh my gosh. And then they they and it's it's kind of like your studio in the fact it's dark, yes, it's cozy, yep, it feels really, you know, inviting, intimate, inviting. And I think people kind of like, oh, okay. They damp down and they're like, you know what? I'm kind of vibing with this. That's right. And then you get a little tequila on board, and it's like liquid courage. Liquid courage, and then it's good. So anyway, but no.

Mark Jones: 2:54

So cheers to your new podcast. For those listening, we've got Feral and Fabulous featuring our wonderful lady here. And you guys should check that out. But we're not here to talk about your show today, we're here to allow me to pry a little bit. Okay. With Kimberly Howell, who's been in the business for quite some time now. Since dirt, I always say. Since dirt. That's awesome. So, Kimberly, if you could just tell our guests about you in general, and you can sum it up because I'm gonna dig deep in this.

SPEAKER_01: 3:23

Okay, okay, cool. Well, I I would just start by saying I actually grew up in San Antonio. I moved here when I was in first grade. Okay. My dad had been an attorney for I think pyramid life. And so we had been, I was born in Little Rock, Arkansas. We moved to Columbus, Ohio very briefly, and then we were we came to San Antonio when I was in the first grade. So been here most of my life, or at least the part that I remember anyway. So, you know, that's the deal on that. My dad had left being an attorney and decided to go into the building business. My grandparents, his parents, put him or set him up in the building business. And so he started building homes in gosh, in Inspiration Hills, okay, uh, Wellesley Manor, I'm trying to think, Village d'Orleones, multiple subdivisions across San Antonio. And so growing up in that business, I was used to being around, you know, homes being built, being out on construction sites, you know, that kind of thing. And so I think it was kind of like a natural evolution to kind of like eventually sit on site for my dad. And so I got my kind of I cut my teeth on sitting on site, you know, with the new construction. And then I it came time to go to college. And I was like, okay, I don't know that I want to do the family business anymore. I think I want to do something different, you know. So I went and got my degree in, actually, I got my degree in business data systems and accounting. Okay. If you can imagine that. Nerd. Whatever. I have no idea why I picked that, you know. But anyway, so I graduated from UTSA, got a job at Southwest Research Institute, and I was there for many years, and then absolutely did not like that job. I was a senior research analyst, and so I did a lot of analytical work. Obviously, in the I was in the mechanical and fluids engineering division, which I think originally was the physics division. Anyway, so it was a lot of very dry material.

SPEAKER_05: 5:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:20

Anyway, didn't really match my personality. I was really kind of miserable. But interestingly enough, when I was there, one of the other engineers that I worked with, Renee Penner, she's actually on my real estate team. Very cool. And she's been one of my agents on the team for over 10 years. And so we kind of became fast friends. And I was like, you know what? After being there many years, I'm like, I think I'm gonna go back into the family business, so to speak. And so that's kind of how I transitioned back out and got my license. And uh, even though I had worked on site, you know, you don't have to have a license to work on site. And so I had gotten my license, and then in the 90s, then the rest is history.

Mark Jones: 5:59

Absolutely. And the history, that's the part that I want to get into today. So you've been in the industry for now over 20 years.

SPEAKER_01: 6:07

Oh, like 35, yeah. Long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you count my on-site, you know, the on-site. Yeah.

Mark Jones: 6:13

And you've seen a lot of changes throughout our industry. And that that is one of the pieces that I will get into a little bit later. But before we do, I kind of want to talk about as you became a new agent, uh, obviously you had a little bit of sense of what's going on because of the background with your family.

SPEAKER_01: 6:32

Sure, sure.

Mark Jones: 6:34

As a producing agent, was there what from that helped you in this business, day one? Or was it tough jumping in day one?

SPEAKER_01: 6:44

You know, I think the background did help. I feel like even sitting on site, you know, even as a kid, I mean, I was like 16, 17, 18 when I was sitting on site. And so I feel like I got used to talking to agents. I would sit out, you know, sit out at the model, and then agents would come in. And so I kind of got to observe how they did their business without actually being in that business, you know, per se. And so I feel like, you know, sometimes when you shadow somebody, oh my goodness.

Mark Jones: 7:10

We talk about this quite often, and it's always the veteran agents, the veteran brokers that bring up the concept of shadowing and learning and soaking up things, but for some odd reason, you're not seeing a lot of that with these newer agents.

SPEAKER_01: 7:26

No, you know what? That's an interesting dynamic that we should talk about because you're right. I think in the beginning, that is how I learned here. I learned from observation and I would watch what other agents would do. And in fact, I remember when I wrote my first contract, I was really kind of like freaking out. And I had them up in the conference room. I'd been showing them, you know, properties. In fact, they were buying a condo. Okay. And the condo had a different contract than a, you know, single family. So I was just like, oh my God. And my clients were up in the in the in the, like I said, in the meeting room. And so I go to the back and I shared an office with a couple of other agents. And I remember Shelly, she had the office next to me or the desk desk next to me. I went through her and I was looking at a contract on her on top of her desk. And I'm like, okay, she put this there, but it was a single family, not a condo contract. So I'm like, okay, that's different on this contract. I'm like, oh my God. But I mean, I was looking to see what she had done. And then I went back in there and God bless those, that family, you know, because obviously, I'm sure. Absolutely. And I was cutting my teeth on them. But, you know, I I watched how she had written her contract up and then I did it myself. But then I would also listen on the phone, like when they were in the office talking, right? I would see, okay, how are they talking to the clients? What are they saying? What's the context? You know, that kind of thing. And the cool thing is I didn't just learn from one person. Right. I learned from a lot of different people. And so what I have learned kind of to do is I would take whatever one person says and pick the things that I felt comfortable making my own. And you know how sometimes somebody may do a presentation or or say something, you're like, oh, I love that concept, but maybe not the word, the exact words that they use because you just don't feel comfortable saying those words. Maybe that word's not a word you would normally use. So you find the word in your own vocabulary that kind of like makes sense. And you're like, okay, I'm gonna then trade that out. And then I feel very comfortable making that statement because I feel like it it kind of aligns with what I would normally say or how I would talk about something.

Mark Jones: 9:28

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. And and I can relate to that because back in 2012, when I got into the industry, I had and was surrounded by top producers in our office back with Academy Mortgage. We had Adrian Trevino, Hector Argometto. I mean, it was just a bunch of top producers that I was thrown into this lion's den, right?

SPEAKER_02: 9:49

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 9:50

So, like you said, I would take things from each of them, and my way of going about things is a little bit more woohoo in your face. Yeah. So I would take that and adopt it and make it into mine. So now when I tell people, like I'll say something that makes perfect sense, and somebody will say, you know what, I'm gonna use that. I will say, if you stole it from me, you stole it twice.

unknown: 10:12

Yes.

Mark Jones: 10:13

You know?

SPEAKER_01: 10:14

Absolutely. Oh, isn't that so true? Yeah, no.

Mark Jones: 10:17

So now that we we kind of went on a little tangent there for a moment, I want to get back to your journey as keep me on track because I'm between the tangents. Yeah, I got you. So the I the journey of becoming a realtor. That's a funny word. Yes, I'm not sure. We won't get into that. Then progressing your career, yeah, at a certain point, you decided to do your own thing.

SPEAKER_07: 10:44

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 10:45

What was that like? What culminated to giving you the confidence, the motivation, the funds, the bandwidth to go off and do that?

SPEAKER_01: 10:56

Well, if you're talking about because I had been originally an agent, obviously with Howell Properties, that was where I kind of started. And then we sold Hal Properties to Keller Williams on Blanco Road. Okay. This is you guys. Oh, yeah, Blanco 1604, absolutely. Remember back in the day the days. Anyway, so that was in 1997. So I stayed with Keller Williams from 1997 and then broke off on my own in the early 2000s. And so I had Kimberly Hell properties basically. Initially, it was actually um San Antonio Avalar, which was a franchise.

SPEAKER_07: 11:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

But then we morphed into Kimberly Hell properties. And so basically I had a brokerage for about 20 years.

SPEAKER_02: 11:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 11:35

And then just recently, earlier this year, went back home again because 20 here's what's crazy about it is 21 years ago, I had been with Keller Williams Legacy, the office on Sontera, which is where we still are. And Stephen Gregg and I had met in January of this year and had a conversation. And he's like, Hey, how about coming back home? Although for 20 years, Stephen Gregg and I had had a conversation almost every year for 20 years. Hey, how about coming back home? And I just wasn't ready, right? Gotcha. And so this year we had the conversation and things shifted and things were a little different. So I was like, hey, and he said, You're not going to believe this, but your old office is available. Wow. So my old office at my old office was available from 21 years ago. How cool. So it was kind of like a sign, you know what I mean? And so that's that's kind of what happened or evolved as to when I had come back. But I think the thing that happened when, and I love Keller Williams. I was really happy at Keller Williams Legacy. It really had nothing to do with the office. Sure. I think it was just, I was at the point in my career where I had a mega office, a mega team. Yes. So we were functioning off site. So we were already, I had been at the main office at the mothership, so to speak. Then I had branched off. I had gotten my own office. So I'm like, okay, I've already got my own office as a mega team. So it's like, okay, I've already got my copier, I've got an office. So I started thinking, well, maybe we just do this as a brokerage, you know? And so then that's kind of how things morphed from there. And then I just started recruiting agents. And then we at one point we had gotten up to like 125 agents at the largest point. And then, of course, came 2007, 2008. Yep. And we all know what happened there.

Mark Jones: 13:14

We do. We do. Now, I was not in the industry at that time. So if you could share what your experience was at that time.

SPEAKER_01: 13:21

Oh my gosh, it was brutal. I mean, it was really, I mean, because I had been doing it for a while at that time. And the crazy thing is I had just gone off on my own and opened up a brokerage. Right. So to go from, and again, we had built up and we were doing well. But when that hit, I remember just agents leaving the industry because they just couldn't sustain themselves during that time. Not only that, but I think we had lending, and I know you weren't in lending yet, but I mean, it was crazy. And I've talked about this story before. We would have deals, and this happened to me actually on one of my listings that I had in Champions Ridge. We closed on a Friday of a holiday weekend. And uh, I can't remember what holiday it was, but it was during that time period of like 2000, I would say, kind of really got crazy in 2008.

Mark Jones: 14:08

2008, end of 2008, right into 2009 when it was like that was when it went really crazy.

SPEAKER_01: 14:13

Okay. And so it was during that time. We closed on a Friday, everybody closed. It was my listing. Um, my sellers closed, the buyers closed, everything was good, but they didn't get it funded that Friday. You know, it was late in the day and it just didn't work out timing-wise. So we're like, okay, we'll have to wait until Tuesday because Monday was a holiday. So we're like, okay, fine, no problem. So got through the weekend, everybody anxiously on Tuesday morning, mortgage company was out of business by Tuesday morning, and they did not fund it.

unknown: 14:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 14:43

So literally, there was no deal. Like it was it was it fell apart completely, and we had to start all over, which we did, and it did work out.

SPEAKER_02: 14:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 14:51

But that kind of thing, where literally lenders were going out of business. Like one day they're in business originating, and the next business, I mean, the next day they're out of business. Completely, completely gone, like nobody to even talk to. I mean, it was so crazy, so scary. So I feel like that was pretty brutal. It was really the uncertainty of it, and we didn't know how long it was gonna last. I mean, it was just people were, I mean, entities were collapsing. I mean, it was a really scary time, and you almost were afraid to watch the news because of course, you know, and this is not to throw the news under the bus, but if it let's throw them. Okay, but if it bleeds, it leads. That's right. And so, you know, there was a lot of that going on. And so I think fear, and that's another thing that I think influences our industry in real estate, is people get fearful. Yes. And when the news outlets are promoting fear mongering, absolutely, then they buy into that. And because I've I've learned over the years, when people are scared, they turn in to watch more. Absolutely because the fear, that's so true. It fear breeds fear, right? And so I feel like it has impacted greatly the real estate business financing, all of that over the years as to what the headlines are. And the sad thing is sometimes there's a grain of truth to the headlines. I'm not saying that they're made up, but sometimes the basis is not really what they're talking about at all. They just take the thing that scares people the most and they blast it continuously because I feel like people's neurons can just absorb that and they're like, I'm scared, I'm scared. I want to watch more because I feel the need to keep aligned with whatever I'm hearing because everybody else is scared about it too, and we're all in this together. And so I feel like that can be kind of a feral. That can be a feral thing to happen in any in any industry.

Mark Jones: 16:43

Absolutely. Now, now I want to uh give the the listeners out there just a quick reminder. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. And what I mean by that is the deal is never done until it's funded. And and that's to her story in that. Now, uh digging a little deeper into this media thing, this is gonna be a tangent for us because I think it deserves to be talked about. I recently saw a post, matter of fact, it was day before yesterday, about the uh what is it, Logan Paul fight, something like that? Jake Paul. Jake Paul, there you go. Jake Paul fight, and the idea of he lost, he got his jaw broken, but he made double triple what the other guy made. So it almost proves the point that the new currency is almost entertainment shock value, just like you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02: 17:32

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 17:33

And I feel as though we just spoke about the 2008 crash. Yeah, the media is doing a great job of making us feel like the market we're in is similar to what we went through.

SPEAKER_01: 17:45

Yes.

Mark Jones: 17:46

Would you agree?

SPEAKER_01: 17:47

100%.

Mark Jones: 17:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:48

100%, yes.

Mark Jones: 17:50

So that being the case, what are, let's say, some advice that you would give to those out there, home buyers, home shoppers, homeowners, including realtors, yeah, as far as the media, what their customers are seeing, because there there is no way around it. They're gonna find it one way or another.

SPEAKER_01: 18:16

Yep, it's everywhere.

Mark Jones: 18:17

That's right. In regards to what reality is.

SPEAKER_01: 18:21

Right. Wow, that's a that's a great question. And I'm gonna have to think about that for a second because I feel like it's it's education is key. I feel like education is key. The problem is the education, you know, uh the breadth of the education, you can't always control the breadth of it, right? I mean, you can you can attempt to and get the word out, but I feel like sometimes it's almost like a conversation you have to have one-on-one with someone, just because I feel like there's so many misconceptions out there that you can't, I mean, you can make a blanket statement, it's not really what they're saying. Right. But well, what do you mean by it's not really what they're saying? And so, in what regard? Because what Jane might be scared about might not be what Dick is scared about, what you know, Joe is scared about. Everybody might be scared about a different component of what they've got you scared about, you know. That's very true. And so you have to almost customize the conversation, tailor it to be uh something that's going to resonate with the person that's having the concern. That's very true. And so I think it's it's although you can do it in mass, you have to do it where you touch on, I guess you touch on a lot of different potential concerns that people are having to try and address multiple different things. Because, like I said, what I've learned, especially this last year, when I've been talking to clients, it's been interesting how different their concerns are. Some of them are similar, right? But some of them are actually very different. And sometimes I'm talking to somebody and they're like, I'm really concerned about this. And I'm like, wow, I hadn't really thought about going down that rabbit hole. That perspective, because I just either I haven't been in that situation or I haven't had another client that necessarily aligned with what their concerns were. And so I was like, wow, you know what? That's a great point. Hadn't really thought about that particular rabbit hole. Sure. You know, but I respect that rabbit hole now that you're telling me, I can see why you'd be concerned about that. But this is the deal, or this is my take on that. But again, what I've learned is it doesn't necessarily meet every single person's concern. Right. Because I've had a lot of different sellers this last year. You know, estates have been a thing. I feel like, and this is not to go down that rabbit hole, but since COVID, I feel like a lot of people have passed away, a larger number of people. So that's created a lot of a lot more of estate sales than what we have had. And the thing is, it's sad, but it's just the reality.

SPEAKER_07: 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:52

And so when you have an estate, one thing I've learned, because I do work a lot of estate business, I have a lot of attorneys that I work with, and they have people that are dealing with estates. And so definitely it's been interesting because a lot of times you have the executor, typically, right? But then you will have a lot of siblings or you will have a lot of family members.

SPEAKER_07: 21:12

Infighting.

SPEAKER_01: 21:13

Oh yes. And so that has created, I feel like the last is again since COVID, I feel like I have seen a lot more estates. I've seen a lot more infighting of deals where you can have, like I even had one situation where you had two brothers and two sisters. Uh, they were selling the property, their parents had passed, and the the two brothers kind of aligned in their thinking. The two sisters were aligned in their thinking, but the two sisters and the two brothers were absolutely not in agreement on anything. Wow. Like nothing. Wow. And so I just feel like we've had a lot more in a weird sort of way complicated deals. Yeah, you know, and I think through again, again, people passing away, I think, or somebody that is now single because they've, you know, lost their spouse, they are having to navigate this real estate world right now without their partner, without their, you know, child, whatever it happens to be. Right. Uh, I just feel like people have been under a lot more duress since COVID. I feel like, and and not to say it's necessarily directly the reason.

Mark Jones: 22:18

It's just the time period. Yeah. It's the time period.

SPEAKER_01: 22:21

It's a reference point. It's there is an association, I think, definitely. But I think that that what happened to us during COVID, I feel like, because now we talk about COVID differently. Obviously, in the beginning, it was like this big scary loopy thing, right? And now not so much. I mean, we I mean, we still are appreciative of, hey, it's something we have to be careful of, but not, but they have better treatments. There's there, it's more manageable now than it was before. But I do feel like there's been a fallout in this industry that I think was probably in great part a result of that. And so I feel like people have had personal challenges as a result that maybe were a little different than they would have had otherwise.

Mark Jones: 22:59

Yeah, I know that that's you know wow, a great answer for that. And it gave me more perspective on it as well, in regards to things have changed since COVID. I believe you are correct. The COVID, good or bad, that was the thing that held those interest rates low for as long as they did. Yes. That is the one thing that made our real estate market thrive for two years straight. I mean, never made more money, never helped more people in a short period of time. For sure. Personally.

SPEAKER_01: 23:30

For sure.

Mark Jones: 23:31

And now that we're fast forwarding into today's world, right, and you correct me if I'm wrong, and and then we'll get back to your journey. But I would go as far as to say that the folks that are buying right now, and almost for the past year or almost two years, are the folks that could not buy in the 2020, 2021 period of time.

SPEAKER_01: 23:53

100%. 100%. Absolutely. You nailed it. That that is, I think, the dynamic in a nutshell of what we're saying.

Mark Jones: 24:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 24:01

For sure.

Mark Jones: 24:02

Very good. Okay, so let's get back to your journey. You open the brokerage, you're trucking along, and then all of a sudden you've got working with clients that are San Antonio Spurs, you're working with the big dogs. Yes. How did that come to be and what was that like?

SPEAKER_01: 24:17

Oh, that was super fun. Just a great, a great time in my career. And just I love, like I said, just and and personally as well. I mean, just a great fun time. I actually met the lady that was kind of heading up uh that organization at the time. And I was doing, I I am a CRP, which is certified relocation professional. So there's, I don't know how many in San Antonio. I'm gonna say maybe there's a dozen. I don't know for sure, but not many. But anyway.

Mark Jones: 24:44

It's funny that you mentioned that. JC, if you could throw up on the screen real quick. Oh my gosh. This is so funny. So when I was doing my research on the side, let's see if I can find it. I there it is. I said, what the heck are all of these things? What are all these designations? B B A, C R P, A B R, C R S, G R I, Green, Renee, AKA, she's the H B I C right now.

SPEAKER_01: 25:20

Well, I don't know, I don't know about that. Um but definitely my at the time, my CRP, my BBA, of course, my Bachelor of Business Administration, but my CRP really factored in because she was like, you help people relocate. And so a lot of my business came from corporate relocation. So that meant that I was really working with a lot of corporate executives that were moving in from everywhere. Doesn't matter. New York, California, I mean Florida, wherever. I mean, it doesn't matter because corporations exist everywhere. And so they would move their CEOs and their, you know, all the different people that worked in the organization. When I first got into real estate and relocation, the companies were moving people a lot more. You don't find that, especially since COVID. That's a whole nother story. Very true, yes. But back in the day, there was a ton of relocation going on. So I had a lot of corporate relocation accounts. So I would fly out to different cities to meet with the headquarters of the different relocation companies. Right. So I had acquired a lot of different accounts. And so this lady that was working for the Spurs, she she reached out to me. She's like, hey, I see that you're doing all this corporate relocation. She said, I'd love to get you involved in uh in the Spurs. I'm like, oh, I'd love that. That'd be amazing, right? So, and because I was already used to moving people from other places across the world, uh, because a lot of those were international companies. So they would sometimes come from Italy or wherever, you know? And so I think she felt like, hey, this would be a good fit because you're already kind of in that world. Right. And this would just be applying it to basketball teams. Absolutely.

Mark Jones: 26:53

And in addition, it it comes along with a prestige. It comes along with a higher level of customer service, a lot higher level of listening, a higher level of, and I don't want to say catering because you're still the expert in that instance. But if you throw that responsibility on even an experienced agent that hasn't dealt with those kind of situations, who knows how that will turn out.

SPEAKER_01: 27:19

Right, right. And I said so I feel like that was probably where she was thinking, you know, hey, it would be a fit. And so again, I dip my toe into that water, started working with, you know, I worked with Monty Ginobili when he first moved to San Antonio, and then many, many of the guys, you know, on the team. And so, uh, and Fabricio Alberto, who I just adore. I I met he he came along, you know, a little bit later after Manu, but just, I mean, the guys and many of the guys that I worked with, and their I met their wives or their girlfriends or whoever, and we became fast friends. And so, you know, 20 years later, we're all still friends. Like I'm still friends with Francisco Elson, and he's over in, he lives in Holland, I think. Anyway, Amsterdam, I'm not sure, but anyway, he and I will, you know, all over the holidays, because one one holiday, it was on Christmas Eve, uh Francisco Elson came over to our house, and he was like Santa Claus for all the kids that were there at my house, you know. And so they climbed up on his lap. And I mean, he could not have been nicer and just uh I and that that's the one thing I will say is the Spurs organization has always been top notch. I mean, just what a class organization and just amazing people. And just like I said, just I'm so blessed. And I look back and just think, oh my gosh, I have all these amazing friends that I've kept all these years. And I haven't worked with the team in in many years, several years now, but it was a good 12-year run or however long it was. And so just so great. And like I said, just nothing I would trade for the world.

Mark Jones: 28:50

So I remember back, it was 2012 or 2013, I was new in the industry, and we talked about this before we we got on here, but I had Michael Kingsbury. I had just picked him up on my team. Shout out to Michael Kingsbury, I hope you're doing well. So he came to me and said, Hey, I've got a a little inn with Kimberly Howe in her office, and and we're gonna look at getting a desk rental, et cetera, et cetera. And I had no idea who you were at that time. I was still wet behind the ears, but I was the guy that came in and gave the presentations and I was good at it. So after giving one of the presentations at your office, Michael tells me, Hey, you did a great job. I just want you to know we're about to work on, I think it was maybe Malik Rose's probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:36

I can't remember. I mean, certainly he would have been one of them. And and I think George, I'm trying to think who all it anyway. Yes, definitely.

Mark Jones: 29:45

Yeah, he says, so you did a great job on the presentation. I just want you to know we're getting ready to work on Malik Rose's deal. Yeah. And I went, what? Like, what kind of office am I in here? Like, holy cow.

SPEAKER_02: 29:57

Yeah, yeah.

Mark Jones: 29:58

It was just a cool experience to be able to be around that at such an early part in my career.

SPEAKER_00: 30:04

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 30:04

Truly.

SPEAKER_00: 30:05

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 30:05

So as you grew, uh lost people, gained people, shifted with the markets, with having the brokerage. You mentioned that you recently went back to Keller Williams.

SPEAKER_01: 30:18

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 30:19

And I want to ask, yeah, has that anything to do with the market shifting and the way things are going? And the reason why I say that is because we've had similar to 2008, 2009, yeah, a pretty large exodus of realtors in the industry and lenders in the industry.

SPEAKER_02: 30:36

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 30:37

Did that shift have anything to do with that?

SPEAKER_01: 30:39

You know, I would say a small part because ironically, I don't think I predicted at the time I made the decision. I don't think I predicted what happened this year would happen.

SPEAKER_07: 30:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 30:51

So that makes it even crazier. You know, and and and so what was weird about that is we had been on gathering oak for 20 years. Okay. We had had an office on gathering oak. We had been in three different offices on gathering oak, but we were literally in one build, we were in two different buildings, but three different offices. Right. So we just kept moving as our size, you know, changed. You know, we moved, different needs, whatever. Anyway, so 20 years in this on the same street at a brokerage. And so our lease was going to be up in February of this year.

SPEAKER_07: 31:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 31:24

So starting, um, this is what's makes the whole thing so crazy is starting in September of last year, we had, and we had some agents that did commercial. So we started looking for some more commercial space. We had decided that we were going to part ways. John McNair had owned the building that we were in. And so he had been my landlord for most of the 20 years I was on Gathering Oak. I was always renting from John McNair.

SPEAKER_07: 31:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 31:48

Great landlord, great guy, love him.

Mark Jones: 31:50

The builder, right?

SPEAKER_01: 31:50

Yeah, the builder McNair Custom Homes. Anyway, so we had a green sign.

Mark Jones: 31:54

I can see it now.

SPEAKER_01: 31:55

Exactly. I'm I'm so glad you know that the green sign. He'll be very happy to hear that. So, but anyway, no, great guy. And he was, again, he owned McNair Custom Homes, but he also owned the buildings on a Blanco as well. Smart man. So we we were renting from him from, like I said, almost 17 of the 20 years.

Mark Jones: 32:13

So you you basically paid that building off by the city. I did.

SPEAKER_01: 32:15

I should have, and he laughs now because he's like, you should have bought it from me a long time ago. I'm like, I know, I know, but what can I say? It is, it is what it is. Well, he sold that building about three years ago.

SPEAKER_07: 32:27

Oh, wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 32:28

So some owners from California took over. And let's just say it wasn't the same. And so they were, you know, uh absent owners because they were in California and they did it from afar. Yeah. And so we went like a whole the whole month of July without a working HVAC.

Mark Jones: 32:45

Oh, wow. Yeah. July in Texas. Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 32:49

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 32:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 32:50

That was last year in 2024. Okay. So no, no working HVAC. And so that was really a problem, you can imagine. Absolutely. And so then going into last winter, we went without heat. And so we'd be holding our office meetings in the back, and you could literally see the air as we breathe. No, I'm not kidding you. Crazy, right?

SPEAKER_07: 33:08

Believe it.

SPEAKER_01: 33:08

So anyway, so we were kind of like, okay, you know what? It's been a good run. We've been here for 20 years. We're going to find another space. So we we started looking. We had some commercial agents looking. And of course, word gets out on the street that you're, you know, let's face it, what is it? What's the saying? Telephone, telegraph, telertor. I mean, I'm just I've never heard that, but that's possible. Well, I'm just saying. It'll get out there. It's a thing, right? Okay. So last year we started our trek. And so a lot of the agents at the office that had been with me for years, because I've had agents that had been with me, you know, like 18, some, some even almost the whole time, right? And so we were looking, we were actively looking. And so we thought we'd found an office, and then they couldn't have it ready in time. There was going to be too much, like we were going to go four months without our own office. You know, that's going to be crazy. So anyway, then we thought we'd found a second office and we were literally getting ready to sign the lease. And then they they pulled it from us and said, no, we're going to lease to somebody else. And we're like, yeah, we'd already done that. We were going to finish out done. No, no, no. You can't make this stuff up. Literally, we were getting ready to sign. Didn't happen. Okay. So by now, I'm starting to kind of panic a little bit because we're a couple of months from having to be out of our office. And we think we found it, found the third office. Then they pulled, they pulled a rope a dope on us on a Monday after we thought we were going to be signing with them. And then they changed it. They changed the amount they were going to say, well, we miscalculated on what we told you. And I'm like, you are kidding me.

SPEAKER_07: 34:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 34:41

So crazy thing is, is that it this weird thing happened. My son had had an accident and had he had fallen out of his wheelchair. He had to be taken by EMS to Stone Oak Methodist. So this is in January of this year. So I'm kind of panicking, and I'm and my husband, Dave, calls me and says, Hey, Steven's going by ambulance to the hospital. I'm like, I'm going, I'll meet y'all over there, right? So as I'm driving to Stone Oak Methodist, and he turned out to be fine. So everything's all good with that.

SPEAKER_02: 35:10

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01: 35:10

But the whole point of the story is as I'm driving to St. Oak Methodist, I go down Sontera and as I'm turning into Stone Oak Methodist, I look over and there is Keller Williams Legacy, my old office, that I haven't, I just haven't seen it, thought about it, whatever, you know, and I see it as I'm turning in, going, Oh, there's my old office, whatever. Not thinking anything other than that. Here's where the really crazy thing comes in. The next day, Stephen Gregg texts me. Wow. And said, Hey, heard you've been looking for office space. Heard you're having a hard time finding something that's a fit. I think I've got a solution for you.

SPEAKER_04: 35:47

Like you said, tell a realtor, it'll get there.

SPEAKER_01: 35:49

And so that's crazy. And so literally, I'm like, you know what? I told, I told Matt, I told my staff, I said, Hey, I'm getting together with Steven again because I'd met with Steven almost every year for the 20 years I'd been gone. We always would get together and catch up. Hey, what's happening in the industry? What's going on with you? What are the hot topics? Yeah. What can we help each other with? We have always been friends. Yeah. So that never went away. Even though we were, we were friendly competitors, but we still were very like-minded in how we thought about things. And let's face it, I grew up with Keller Williams. That was my the beginning of my career. So I feel like I fashioned a lot of my office after the things that I loved about Keller Williams. Makes sense. So it was kind of like I thought, you know what, when we met this last time in January, I started thinking about it. And you know what? During the meeting, I went into the meeting laughing, telling my staff, oh, it's another meeting with Stephen Gragg. And then I came back to the office and I said, you know what? After 20 years of meeting with this guy, I feel differently this time.

SPEAKER_07: 36:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 36:50

And so they're like, you know what? I think she's serious.

SPEAKER_07: 36:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 36:53

And so for whatever reason, and again, did it factor in that things were last year was a little bit of a tough year? Yeah, it did. It factored in, but it was really more the timing and kind of how, you know, I always, I'm a big believer in God and the universe and all that kind of stuff. And it was just kind of like a sign that just led me to this path. And I just felt like it was just that. And that's why for a lot of the agents at the office, it was a little bit of whiplash because they knew we were moving. It was no secret because we had made it. I mean, it was known on the street.

Mark Jones: 37:25

Oh, yeah, we were about to sign it.

SPEAKER_01: 37:27

We were we were everybody knew we were not going to be staying in that office. So that was a known thing. What none of us knew, including myself, is that we were going to be going back to Keller Williams', you know, legacy. So again, it just once I met with Stephen and I started thinking about it, I thought, you know what? All the things, and Stephen just, there's so many things I love about Stephen Gragg, but I mean, just the way he runs the office. And I love the team, I've gotten to know the team leader, John Totten. He's amazing. And so the group of agents, and I've known and done deals with them for so long. And then when Stephen offered me an opportunity to have an ownership role in Keller Williams Legacy, I was like, oh man, okay. Now this is something that I feel like I love the idea of because it had been obviously on me for 20 years.

SPEAKER_02: 38:13

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 38:14

I love the idea of sharing responsibility with other like-minded individuals. Absolutely. And when I heard who the other owners were going to be, I'm like, oh my gosh, this would be amazing because the other agents were so awesome. I just genuinely, I can honestly say a hundred percent, I absolutely adore every owner at Kelly Williams Legacy. And that's that's a lot because again, you can't say that at a lot of different places.

SPEAKER_05: 38:41

You've got different personalities, you've got different agendas. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 38:44

Yes. And so there's a large group of us, but I just adore them all. And so that was really, I think, if I had to pick one thing that I think kind of drew me, it would be Steven and the group that he had put together, the ownership group that he had put together. And so I feel like that was kind of what it just gave me peace. It was like I made that decision and you would think I would be so kind of freaking out about it.

SPEAKER_02: 39:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 39:07

But I really wasn't. And that's what made me think, you know what? This is what I need to do because it feels right. And a year, almost a year later, I'm so happy. It's like, yeah, it's allowed me to kind of like spread my wings and like you mentioned earlier on, do the podcast, do some of the other things that I've been wanting to do, but just couldn't do. Makes it. You know, I just had to do that.

Mark Jones: 39:29

Because of all the responsibility that you were holding.

SPEAKER_01: 39:31

Yeah. So it's so fun to be able to really, you know, pour my heart into McNair Custom House, pour my heart into the podcast, pour my heart into my own, you know, realistic book of business, you know, that kind of thing. And mentoring, I love mentoring. I love helping other agents. And so that's been fun. So I've done some teaching and I teach a class on relocation. Okay, very good. I can I do the relocation certification class so that any agent that takes it, it's a long class. It's it's four different classes of two hours each, but then they give Their relocation certification, and then that way they are certified to work relocation business. So that kind of thing has been fun for me to be able to give back and then nurture the next generation coming up.

Mark Jones: 40:11

Absolutely. And I think that that is going to be the saving grace of this next generation is folks like you that are open, honest, willing to share because you're pouring into people that hopefully what you've learned doesn't end with you. Truly.

SPEAKER_02: 40:26

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 40:27

What's funny is I was thinking as you were saying that and everything, divine intervention. And as I drove by and I saw it as a sign. Meanwhile, Steven was probably sitting at the window and he saw you drive by real slow and he went, Okay, I'll call her tomorrow. I got her. So that you talking about pouring into agents, things of that nature kind of leads into this next uh little discussion here. JC, how are we doing on time? 45 minutes in. Okay, we got about 15 minutes left in this. Let's see. Before we go into this. Yes, okay. So as you were mentioning, pouring into agents, things like that, I want to ask you some questions that I want to get your perspective on. Okay. So the first one, when you think back to your early years in your career and the biggest challenges that you faced, what are some things that the newer agents are potentially facing today that has kind of reoccurred, if that makes sense? Because everything is cyclical, so to speak. But and and you've been in the business for quite some time.

SPEAKER_07: 41:39

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 41:40

I can't say that you've been through it all, but you've been through quite a bit. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 41:43

You know, there's a lot of bodies and skeletons in the clouds. Let's just say that. Yeah. The pile is getting very high. That's awesome. Uh, you know, oh gosh, there were so many things uh that I feel like I had as a challenge in the beginning. I feel like one of the biggest things for me, and I don't know that all agents experience this, but for me, one of the biggest challenges for me is I tend to take on whatever my clients are going through, it becomes my I'm a bit of an empath in that regard. And that if somebody is fretting about this, I fret with them. And so if somebody, if I, if I have a like a listing that hasn't been selling, right? I really like it is my personal, like I take it personally. Like it is, it's like it's my house not selling. And in fact, I almost wish it was my house not selling rather than theirs, because I feel like the pressure on me is less when my house is not selling. And so I feel like in this market, a newer agent, because let's face it, depending on when the agent came into the business, if they came in during 2021, 2022, they have no idea they have a false sense because they would walk out the building and a buyer would hit them from the ceiling. You know what I mean? It's raining, it's raining buyers. Oh my God. You know, I'm just like, grab it, get my umbrella, you know. And so I do feel like that mentality, they're like, oh, this is easy. Oh my gosh, it's like I just throw my my I throw my you know line in the water and here's fish on. Oh my God, I've got four fish on. How did I get four fish on with one hook? You know, so true. And so they they it's like drinking from a fire hose, right? You're like, you know, I I can't. And so they were like, I they had all the business they would want. They just had to figure out how to manage it, you know, which was challenging. I'm not gonna say it wasn't challenging, but I feel like now, I feel like in a year like 2025, in fact, we're gonna get t-shirts that said I survived 25 because that's that's kind of how I think we're still here, baby. Yeah, exactly. Amen to that, amen to that. So um, but I feel like we're kind of back to the basics. I feel like if an agent did not get solid in their foundational understanding of this business and industry, they're going to struggle. Because I feel like in the beginning, you just it once you have a strong foundation, you can build off of that. And I feel like weather a lot of storms with going back to that foundation, you know, looking back. But I feel like a lot of the newer agents, they never got that foundation built.

Mark Jones: 44:16

You are on the money. I on the money. Matter of fact, those of you listening, continue to stay tuned because next week's episode is actually discussing back to the basics with a different real estate broker and a real estate uh, I'm sorry, uh mortgage broker. But let's skip back to this. And now that that is something that agents have or will experience, something that you have experienced, what do you think is something that agents will never experience in today's market that you had in your career, if that makes sense?

SPEAKER_07: 44:50

Oh God.

Mark Jones: 44:51

It can be technology-based. I mean, and anything out there that they probably will not encounter.

SPEAKER_01: 44:56

I don't know that they're going to have the same kind of personal interaction that I got to have when I just started out, because there wasn't the technology. I mean, I've got to tell you, when I was first in the industry, we were excited to have a fax.

SPEAKER_07: 45:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 45:11

No, I'm not kidding.

SPEAKER_07: 45:12

I believe you.

SPEAKER_01: 45:13

No, no, no. I mean, back in the day, how they delivered the listings, that there was a truck that went around all the brokerages and would take the latest pictures of the listing, you know, to all the different brokers and stuff like that. And then, of course, came faxes, because then they would fax all the new listings over and you put it in the book up front, you know.

Mark Jones: 45:28

Well, to your point, a bit ago, you were mentioning at the beginning of this that when you moved to deciding to do your own thing, yeah, you had your office. And one thing that you said, you had your printer fax.

SPEAKER_01: 45:41

Yep. You said that. I did.

Mark Jones: 45:43

So you're on the money.

SPEAKER_01: 45:44

Absolutely. Yeah.

Mark Jones: 45:45

And so big deal.

SPEAKER_01: 45:46

And so with the technology, which again, we're all sitting here with our phones within arm's reach, right? You know, and I couldn't do without mine.

SPEAKER_02: 45:53

Nope.

SPEAKER_01: 45:53

But we didn't have that back then. And I think that it's a blessing and a curse. I think the technology is a blessing for sure, but there can also be a curse side of it because I feel like because of technology, we don't have the personal interaction with our clients and even other agents. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because back in the day when I first started, I mean, I love some of the, you know, the pillars of our industry. I loved being able to get together and talk with them on the phone and we would share stories and stuff like that. And I feel like, yeah, we do stuff on social media and you know, whatnot.

Mark Jones: 46:27

It's very impersonal.

SPEAKER_01: 46:28

It is, it's very impersonal. It's not the same as the two-way dialogue. Yeah. You know, and I feel like that's kind of lost in the industry right now. We don't have that level. And I don't think we have it with our clients either. Agreed. Which is why I think so many clients out there are Googling or AIing, Chat GPT, Claude, whatever it happens to be, they're finding out that way rather than having a two-way conversation with an agent who has years of experience that, although, believe me, I get it. I understand there's a place for it, but sometimes there are nuances that only a seasoned agent can truly understand and help you kind of navigate without just going again and trying to figure it out on your own on a text. Yeah.

Mark Jones: 47:12

No, well, I mean, there is something about having a conversation and getting to hear the emotion and the passion that comes through in those responses. It makes a difference in their mind, in their beliefs, and how they make their decisions to move forward.

SPEAKER_01: 47:26

Absolutely. Because sometimes it's not the words that you say, it's the inflection that you use, it's the way that you say things that I think a buyer or seller can better understand. Because when you're just reading it without the true, again, explanation coming through words, you know, I feel like then you're just interpreting it how you interpret it. And that cannot necessarily be the proper way, or maybe it's not the answer you were looking for. You just don't know it.

Mark Jones: 47:54

That's, you know, I had never thought about that. The conveyance of those responses to the consumer basically being read versus I'm telling you the experience.

SPEAKER_01: 48:07

Exactly. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I feel like being able to share, hey, this is, you know what, Mr. Seller, this is what my concern about this offer is, because I had this deal very similar to this, and this is what happened. So this is a cautionary tale. That's right. I'm just going to give you this example so that you can relate it to your own situation. Doesn't mean you don't do it. Right. But I want you to at least do it with the knowledge of what potentially could happen so that if this does happen, you're not furious, losing it, saying, Oh my gosh, why didn't you tell me that this could happen? It's like, well, you know, in this case, I am telling you this is possible. Doesn't mean it's going to, but it might. And I don't want you to be blindsided. But I feel like it's that interaction of being able to have that two-way conversation so that you can give them an answer, but then they can ask a question about that answer, and then you can further elaborate it. And yes, I do understand you can do that somewhat with AI, but it's still not the same. And I feel like the education process with clients is just different now with AI.

Mark Jones: 49:09

Yeah, I have to agree with that. I truly, and I think that it is a big shift in the way our industry is going to have to adapt to this new clientele. Yeah. And it's not necessarily a new clientele, it's just the clientele of before equipped with different tools, different accesses.

SPEAKER_01: 49:27

Which makes them different clients.

Mark Jones: 49:29

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 49:30

It might be like you said, it's this, it's the same people, but they're not necessarily the same clients. That's true. It does. You know, so I I do think it's an interesting time that we're living in for sure.

Mark Jones: 49:43

Most definitely. So as we finish this thing up, we're probably what, about 50 minutes? Looking good? Yeah, six minutes till an hour.

SPEAKER_03: 49:51

All right, we're good. We're good. It only feels like 25 minutes.

SPEAKER_04: 49:54

It really does.

SPEAKER_03: 49:55

Loving it.

Mark Jones: 49:56

So as we're looking ahead to 2026, and and I'll let this be the last question before the final questions. I'm doing a thing now at the end of the podcast where I do rapid questions. Okay, cool. Quick answers, quick cut. Oh my gosh. Okay, I might need more champagne. But we're not there yet. That's awesome. Okay. Okay, let's see here. As we roll into 2026, what do you believe successful agents and brokerages will be doing different than before?

SPEAKER_01: 50:24

I just, I feel like there needs to be more, again, personal connection, more, more personal interaction. And I mean, using technology, but using technology in a way that I feel like is more user-friendly. Yeah. I feel like it's just we've got to stop hiding behind the technology curtain. And I feel like we've got to reach out and just connect more with other human beings. And whether it's you, you and I working together on a loan, whether it's you, you know, myself and a seller, I just feel like there needs to be more interconnection between the two people involved in a deal. And that's true of everybody in the transaction. So I feel like there just needs to be more of that rather than less.

Mark Jones: 51:02

So, in short, utilizing technology as a tool instead of a replacement.

SPEAKER_01: 51:08

100%. That's it. What you just said, that's it. Yes.

Mark Jones: 51:11

And I think I wholeheartedly agree with that. And I am an advocate for the technology. Matter of fact, we built an app, launched a mobile app just recently that is based on that concept. But it is not intended to replace the loan officer. Exactly. It's not intended to replace the realtor.

SPEAKER_01: 51:26

Exactly, like to enhance enhancement. Yes. To make something better, to make the experience better, not to replace it and make it a completely different, you know, experience.

Mark Jones: 51:36

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 51:36

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 51:37

All right. Well, it's time for the new segment. Rapid fire questions. Okay. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01: 51:42

I better take another person.

Mark Jones: 51:43

You might as well. Yep. I'm going to take one too. Matter of fact, before you kill it, this has been great, by the way.

SPEAKER_01: 51:49

Yes, this is awesome.

Mark Jones: 51:50

Okay. So here we go. First are is going to be the segment of career in industry. Okay. First question. Okay. First real estate lesson you learned the hard way.

SPEAKER_01: 52:02

Oh gosh. Be transparent with people. I think just literally, if if you go into their house and it doesn't look good, don't tell them it's amazing and, you know, just expect it to, you know, it's not like a fine wine. It's not going to get better with time. I mean, if that if that house is a wreck, it's still going to be a wreck when the photographer shows up. You know? And so I feel like I was too in the early on, I was too just wanting, I'm a people pleaser. Yeah. So I feel like just, you know, and again, say it with flowers. I'm not saying hit them over the head with a sledgehammer. Sure. But again, I feel like if it walks like a duck and it cracks like a duck, it's probably a duck. You need to call it a duck.

Mark Jones: 52:44

That's right. So that's right. I like that. One thing that agents tend to overcomplicate. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01: 52:54

I don't know. That's we can go to the next. We can go to the next. No, no, no. I mean, I just feel like showings. I just feel like everything about showings, I feel like they overcomplicate it. It's really not that complicated. Yeah. I just feel like be professional, set up the showing time, set up a showing window, make an appropriate window. Don't be a listing agent that gives you a 15-hour window, 15-minute window on a vacant property. Just don't overcomplicate it. I feel like agents these days make showing so complicated because they don't set up the showing time window properly, or they don't, if they're if they're showing clients, they don't give feedback. They're not being professional. So that's my beef is I just feel like the whole showing part of it, whether it's on the listing side or the buyer's agent side, I feel like they complicate it to make it.

Mark Jones: 53:39

That's a great answer. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 53:40

Or complicate it.

Mark Jones: 53:42

What's one thing that agents underestimate?

SPEAKER_01: 53:48

The access to knowledge that their sellers have to call them on their BS.

Mark Jones: 53:54

That is fantastic. Yes. I won't even go down because that's a whole podcast discussion right there. It is.

SPEAKER_01: 53:59

Wow. But yeah.

Mark Jones: 54:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 54:00

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 54:01

Okay. Next one. Biggest misconception customers have about real estate in general.

SPEAKER_01: 54:07

The biggest question that misconception.

Mark Jones: 54:09

Oh, misconception.

SPEAKER_01: 54:10

Misconception. Misconception that it's easy. That I feel like everybody feels like, oh, they drive around fancy cars and they just roll through the frost bank and drop off their check and then they fly off to, you know, Mazatlan. And, you know, it's just all fun and games. And literally, I honestly, and this is my husband was in the army for 27 years. Yep. And he he now has been in real estate for over 10. And he said, literally, he said, real estate is just like the army, only without the bullets. And so I mean, he said, the amount of stress, he said, I've never seen an industry that drinks as much as the army does, except for real estate agents. Wow. And so he said, this this industry, he said the amount of stress, because we're we're handling people's largest investments.

SPEAKER_04: 54:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 54:58

And for those of us, which I think to a great extent, a lot of the great agents, they do care. Yeah. They absolutely care. And when you take that on, the responsibility is overwhelming. And I feel like that can be extremely stressful. And I think they have no idea how how much care that we take in protecting in honoring our fiduciary to our clients. And so I feel like that's a misconception. They think it's easy and we're just cruising around making all this money. And it's just not the case.

Mark Jones: 55:26

And I want to echo what you said. To be a great agent, I believe you have to care. There's only a certain point that you can fake it till you make it, and then everybody can see through it. Yes. Yes. So last question on that segment, and then we're gonna go even rapid fire. Okay. Skills that matter more than the market condition as a real communication. Perfect. Okay. So now on to the business and leadership portion. And this is one or the other. Okay. Solo agent or team model?

SPEAKER_01: 55:58

Team model.

Mark Jones: 55:59

Okay. Systems versus hustle.

SPEAKER_01: 56:02

Hustle.

Mark Jones: 56:03

Love it. Your brand versus referrals.

SPEAKER_01: 56:07

Your brand.

Mark Jones: 56:08

Perfect. Coaching versus experience.

SPEAKER_01: 56:12

Experience.

Mark Jones: 56:13

Love that too. Growth versus stability.

SPEAKER_01: 56:17

Stability.

Mark Jones: 56:18

Okay. That one I didn't think was going to be that. Okay. Stability.

SPEAKER_01: 56:22

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 56:23

Even though you're a rock star and a runner and a gunslinger.

unknown: 56:27

I don't know about that. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 56:29

But I but I want to be stable.

Mark Jones: 56:31

I love it. Okay, we all do.

SPEAKER_01: 56:33

We're trying.

Mark Jones: 56:35

Okay, here's the last little segment here. Market and finance, and it's going to be would you tell folks to buy now or wait?

SPEAKER_01: 56:44

Oh, buy now.

Mark Jones: 56:45

All right. Marry the house, date the rate. Do you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01: 56:49

Yes, but with a caveat.

Mark Jones: 56:51

Let's go.

SPEAKER_01: 56:51

Okay. I feel like absolutely, if you find the house that you absolutely love, buy it now. Don't, but don't force yourself if you're not finding the house that you truly love. I don't feel like you should feel the pressure to like accept something that's not going to be a fit for you. So I do feel like once you find that house, because you can always refinance it down the road. So it's about finding the right house whenever that happens to be. But don't not find the right house right now and go, no, I'm going to wait, even though this is perfect for us. The interest rates are just not as low as I want them to be. I'm going to wait. I've seen clients do that. And then what happens is they can never find the one that got away.

Mark Jones: 57:28

Oh, that is a great, great point. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 57:30

And so it's like forever, I'm going to be showing them literally till they're on Social Security, because they literally cannot find and replace that home that they let get away because they would they didn't want to jump in because they felt like the rates were still too high.

Mark Jones: 57:43

Right. You're right. And uh we'll leave this the last one, and and you can give great insight to this because you have been both the best long-term wealth builder, real estate or owning a business.

SPEAKER_01: 57:58

Real estate.

Mark Jones: 57:59

Very good. Yeah. Very good. You want to elaborate on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01: 58:02

Just I feel like it you have more. I I feel like real estate offers you more latitude. I mean, owning a business, I again, I love it. It's great, but I feel like real estate is for everyone, so to speak. I feel like, you know, and so I think it it's it's possible for anyone.

Mark Jones: 58:17

You're right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 58:18

Which is why I I love it because I feel like it's more attainable for the masses.

Mark Jones: 58:23

That's right.

SPEAKER_01: 58:24

And so I feel like that would be my pick.

Mark Jones: 58:26

I like that. Yeah. I mean, and I have to agree with it, having done both. Most of the time, realtor real estate doesn't talk back. It doesn't give you any BS, you know? It's true. Exactly. We got to keep our sanity somehow. Yeah, yeah, I am into that. Kimberly, this has been awesome. It's been quite yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_03: 58:45

If you don't mind, I got one for both of y'all. At least one question. Yeah. Being it's the new year. Okay. You know, a lot of people, they of course they have their resolutions. Okay. There's probably maybe some listeners or people out there that are thinking about making a career change. Being on y'all's expertise, y'all seeing the highs and lows and on the current situation. What would you tell someone that says, hey, it's a new year. I've been wanting to make a career change. I'm looking at getting into this real estate thing or this lending thing. I'll go based on both of your sides. What would you tell them or advise them to do moving forward?

Mark Jones: 59:18

Mine is super simple and sweet and to the point. It is not as orthodox as you may want to hear at the moment. But if you're going to jump in, jump in with your whole ass, don't do it half-ass. Period.

SPEAKER_01: 59:30

Oh my gosh, I love that. Can you say that to the power of 10? That's right. No, that is that is so true. And honestly, I've got to just, you know, repeat what you said because I do feel like whatever you're going to do, and if you want to get into real estate, absolutely that I think that's a great plan, but you've got to do it with your whole being. You can't just do it part time. I know a lot of agents are like, I'm just going to dip my toe in the water. And that's all fine and good. Sure. But if you're really going to want to be successful in this industry, at some point you are going to have to take that leap because there's no way to adequately long-term help people again just part-time. I feel like you've got to you've got to become that full-time professional. And again, I'm not against people doing it on the side in the beginning. And that way they decide, hey, do I even want to do this? Is this something that I even want to do long term as my main profession? But I think at some point, if you really want to take it to the next level, you're never going to do that if you're, you know, selling cell phones.

Mark Jones: 1:00:24

I agree. And I'll add to that. The idea of being a realtor, being a lender, in my opinion, it is a profession. We are in an industry that requires you to know your stuff and to be able to apply that and to be able to lead these customers to the finish line or to accomplish their their goals.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:43

Yeah.

Mark Jones: 1:00:44

And I look at the perspective of those that are part-time realtors, part-time lenders, and I think to myself immediately, do your customers know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:52

No, absolutely. Because if they're if if your client's hair is on fire, you better be ready with the bucket pretty much whenever they need that. And if you've got another job and another commitment, that's going to be tough to do.

Mark Jones: 1:01:04

I agree. So yeah, no, good point. Well Kimberly, this has been awesome. Getting to know more has been great. So is there anything that you would like to tell our listeners as we finish off 2025, roll into 2026? What is some things that you're I don't I do not like resolutions. I don't buy that crap because we're going to do it now or wait until well I would just call it a resolution and then four months later three weeks later.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:39

I would be 100% on that. I would just tell people to again if you're looking to do real if you're looking to buy or sell real estate call a professional such as yourself for a loan. Call me if you're looking to sell a house or you're looking to buy a house but call a professional person that can advise you don't listen to the media don't let that get in your head. Call somebody who is an expert in that field whether it be lending whether it be real estate whoever that might might need to be it just needs to come from the expert not from the person that's talking from the news outlet.

Mark Jones: 1:02:12

That's great advice. And for those of you out there listening I'll piggyback on what Kimberly was saying here and in regards to re seek out an expert, a professional and when you do think that you found one ask the tough questions. That'll kind of tell you whether they have cut their teeth in the right areas for the right amount of time and it doesn't mean that folks that that haven't been in the industry a long period of time aren't your expert. There are plenty that are students of the game that believe in what they do and love what they do with a passion. But as we jump into this 2026 my goal is to continue to provide you guys with incredible fascinating discussions just like we had here and I'm hoping that we continue this growth and trajectory on the subscribership. Really appreciate you guys if you can throw up let's see boom we are now at 34600 subscribers and growing I want to appreciate and thank you guys for continuing to follow on this. So that being said if you got something out of this discussion please make sure to like subscribe hit that notification we come out with new episodes every Wednesday new discussions new guests and if you have any topics that you'd love to hear about shoot us a message we're open to taking feedback and we'd love to give you guys more of what you're asking for. That being said we will catch you on the next day Monday get better.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:40

Tuesday get better Wednesday get better. If you do that for five years ten years fifteen years how much better will you be? Are you getting better every single day? That's the real question. And it all comes down to taking small steps. You don't have to accomplish everything in one day or even one week. Just focus on getting a little better every single day