Secrets Behind New Home Builder Incentives Finally Revealed!

In this unfiltered and highly educational episode of the Key Factors Podcast – Real Estate AF, host Mark Jones is joined by San Antonio’s top real estate professionals: Moses Thatcher, Cesar Amezcua, and Josh Boggs.

This episode dives into hard truths about the current new home sales market — truths that many agents are too afraid to say out loud.

Topics covered:

• How builders use inflated pricing and temporary buydowns to trap buyers in negative equity
• The fiduciary failure of realtors who chase commissions and skip due diligence
• Why veteran agents are seeing a rise in pre-foreclosures and short sales
• How builder incentives mask the true cost of homeownership
• Why some new homes are built with lower-quality materials to protect profit margins
• The problem with TikTok agents: Are dancing videos replacing actual expertise?
• How improper pre-qualifications and unimproved tax rates are misleading buyers
• The upcoming risk of payment shock as 2-1 buydowns begin to expire

These industry experts hold nothing back, calling out what needs to be said — from poor leadership at brokerages, to shady builder practices, to agents who can't write a contract but know how to “go viral.”

Whether you’re a homebuyer, realtor, lender, or industry leader, this episode will challenge your perspective, sharpen your edge, and reinforce the value of true expertise in a crowded market.

💥 Must-watch moment: Josh Boggs drops stats on how many short sales he’s working right now—and why that number is about to explode.

🎧 Take notes — this is real talk with real consequences.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intros and Market Reality Check
• 2:30 Veteran Creds and 2008 Lessons
• 7:15 Builder Incentives Explained
• 13:20 Josh’s “Scorched Earth” Post
• 20:40 Fiduciary Duty vs Flashy Perks
• 28:00 Payment Economy and Cash Price Concept
• 35:20 Military Buyers, PCS Risk, and Rentals
• 43:10 Quality Trade-offs and Cost Cutting
• 50:05 Contracts, Training, and Broker Responsibility
• 58:30 Hand-offs to Builder Lenders and Leverage
• 1:06:40 Temporary Buydowns and Month 25 Shock
• 1:14:10 Taxes, Escrows, and Payment Surprises
• 1:21:20 Short Sales, Foreclosure Signals, Data
• 1:30:15 Appraisals vs New Builds and Equity Erosion
• 1:38:30 Calls for Real Training, Not Hype

Transcript

SPEAKER_07: 0:53

And welcome back to another episode of Key Factors Podcast, Real Estate AF, where the AF stands for and finance. And I'm your host, Mark Jones. And today we're going to be talking about some real uh stuff that comes up in our market that most people don't pipe up about. But recently we had an agent, uh veteran agent that um called out the BS for what it is. Um so let's be real um join into the conversation and uh let's get started. So I'm gonna first introduce our guest today, and I'm gonna introduce the first guest, uh Cesar Amesqua.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36

Beautiful. Yeah, wow, fantastic.

SPEAKER_07: 1:38

Nailed it. Yes, there we go. How you doing, brother? I'm doing good, doing wonderful. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Uh, next guest is gonna be Josh Boggs. Josh, how are you?

SPEAKER_01: 1:46

Uh it's not as pretty as a name as that, but uh yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, so it's great to be you back on the podcast. Love it. Uh, you guys always kill it. So, yes, very, very honored.

SPEAKER_07: 1:55

Love it. Um, Moses, Moses Thatcher, how you doing, brother? I'm doing good, brother.

SPEAKER_01: 1:59

Back to be here as well, too.

SPEAKER_07: 2:00

Electric new office. Yes, the new dig. So at the beginning of every show, I want you guys to give a couple minutes to tell our audience who you are, uh, why they should be listening to you on this discussion today. Um, who wants to start?

SPEAKER_01: 2:16

I guess the veteran, right? That's a most veteran. I think I need to get started by two years. Uh, yeah, and definitely not beauty here. So, Josh Bloggs, owner of Exposed Homes Group, uh, brokered here at Keller Williams Heritage, uh, been in the business 20 years. Wow. Uh, been through it. Uh, I think we were just talking about it when the market crashed in OA. Like we grew up in it, we were born with it. So we're bane. We're like, yeah, if some adapt, we were raised in this, right? So we get it. We're seeing a little bit of indicators lately on some of those things. Uh, I started a company called the Tall Short Sell Guy. And uh to date, we've done over 652 short sales pre-foreclosures. Uh, so I think we are the number one uh pre-foreclosure or homeowner advocates against foreclosure in all South Texas. So it's been we've been very blessed. What an accomplishment. Yep. Amazing wife that works with me, uh, amazing partner Diana Martinez. She's been phenomenal. And then we have three or two support staff, so as well. So we've been very blessed and just kicking it and just loving San Antonio.

SPEAKER_07: 3:13

Awesome. Uh, you ever uh worry or have a fear of somebody coming up with the short short sale?

SPEAKER_01: 3:18

Oh, yeah. Well, there was a guy that we joke about the bowl. There was a guy named Mike Ficho, rest in peace. Love that guy. He was a good buddy of mine. He was short and he we'd always make jokes. Like, I'm the tall, I'm the tall, shorts of guy. He's the shorts. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_06: 3:32

All right. Uh, who's next?

SPEAKER_03: 3:34

Moses? Yep. Good. Moses Thatcher, Thatcher Realty Group. Um, brokered with Real Broker. Um, business business for nine years now. Um, been privileged to know Josh for a very long time, since like day one when I was greening behind the ears. And um, now I'm just like, we're weeding through the business. So like they've lived it. Uh, this is me just surviving every day. You're like the guy who just shows up every day and you're like, all right, let's do this again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 3:55

So yeah, it's been fun. That's awesome. Uh Caesar, how about yourself, brother?

SPEAKER_04: 4:00

Um Cesar Mesquas, uh broker, CA and company realtors, uh, proudly independent, been independent since 2013 now.

SPEAKER_06: 4:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 4:10

Uh, company's been open for um what is that? 12 years. Yeah, yeah. This this July. Yeah. Um, partner at New World Title with a bunch of great guys over there. You know, you've had Jeff Garza over here. Absolutely. That's my problem. Rob, you know, Mo. Um, and um been in the business, like I said, 17 years, got my license literally as the world was catching on fire in 2007. Yeah. And uh we I was raised in this, in this, in this market. That's where we've had, you know, very, very good years the past couple years. Uh obviously, COVID was I think I broke every record known to man in like nine months because I was like, oh, is it this easy? But you know, it was our first run. You know, I don't think we've ever had a I never had a run.

SPEAKER_07: 4:58

I never had a run like that before it got the first time.

SPEAKER_04: 5:01

And after you talk to some OGs that have been in the business for 30 years, like, oh, that's a run.

SPEAKER_07: 5:05

And and now I must say, me being on the lending side, you guys on the real estate side, I've heard it since I got into the business that you'd have been retired if you'd have got in the business later earlier on, and that concept of well, the lenders kind of had a heyday for quite some time, then CFPB regulations came in, put us in check, which they should have. Um, and I got in the business after that. Don't know the bad habits, but the idea of having that heyday, it's like, well, the lenders got to have that again, if that makes sense. And it was true, and it versus some made-up fictitious uh press here, breathe on a mirror, all that kind of stuff, get alone.

SPEAKER_04: 5:49

I I have a friend that uh we we went to college together and he he got into mortgage, I want to say three years before I got into real estate, and I think in three years, he was probably clearing for for a solid three years, he was probably clearing fifty to sixty thousand a month. Yeah. And uh it brings me back to that scene from the big short when they're meeting with uh with the mortgage guys, and everything's panicking. Yeah, it's like it's like you know, how when they're meeting the two guys like are you gonna recruiting us? It's like we're gonna get a boat, right? Yeah, I know he's like, I was a bartender last year. Now I own a boat.

SPEAKER_07: 6:27

That's right. Sounds like realtors now. No, I'm just gonna but I guess what I was leading to with that is the idea of when those types of markets happen, and it's very rare that it happens. We what we saw was an influx of realtors and influx of lenders jumping into our industry. And uh me as a veteran expertslash leader mentor, I'm all for people jumping into the industry. But matter of fact, I think you guys said it a while ago is the idea of being a glorified hobby or an expensive hobby. And I think that that is what it has turned into, but that's another discussion, but we can get back to that a little bit later. Um, the reason for this discussion um was brought about uh and inspired by a post that Josh shared. Um, and I want to kick this off with sharing the post for our viewers to see if that's okay with you, Josh.

SPEAKER_01: 7:29

Go for it.

SPEAKER_07: 7:30

I saw it up there. It's out there link.

SPEAKER_01: 7:33

Let's interwebs habit, can't pull it back now. He chose violence that right that's awesome. Oh, shouldn't be lifting and posting at the same time.

SPEAKER_04: 7:46

Quick time double pre-workout, and just said scorched earth.

SPEAKER_07: 7:51

Pull that up. Okay, so uh JC, can you see what's on the screen? How about that? Okay. So it starts with the following post um that he shared, and this gentleman is talking about Lenar. Um, and I'll just read it real quick. Lenar is the latest big builder to sign uh signal that they can't afford to keep massive incentives. Here's what that means for you and your clients. Last quarter, Lenar, one of the nation's biggest home builders, spent 14.3% of their sales price on buyers' incentives just to keep the deals moving. That means on a$450,000 home, they're giving away$64,350 in discounts, buy down of mortgage rates, concessions, etc. Their CEO just said they can't keep it up after hitting their lowest margin since 2009, right after that crash. Um Lenar just told their stockholders that they're pulling back on incentives in their latest quarterly report translation. The era of huge builder concessions may be ending. If Lenar is saying that they're cutting back, expect all the big builders, DR, Poulti, etc., to do the same. Why it matters to you as an agent, less leverage for buyers. Don't assume today's incentives will still be there in a few months, higher out-of-pocket costs ahead. If builders tighten up, buyers may need to rely more on you and us to structure creative financing solutions. Urgency in uh is back. Buyers sitting on the sidelines might miss the window where builders are practically giving away money. Bottom line, now that it's time to reach out to your clients, let them know that builders' generosity won't last forever. Also, show them how VA, FHA, and conventional loan structure can help them secure the right home before those incentives dry up. Um, now this was a post. Let me go to yours if you don't mind. Let's see here, Josh. Boom. Let's go. Bang, bang, bang. And Josh posts a lot just like I got it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:08

We must go through those. Hell's Indian. Need to bring that up, actually.

SPEAKER_07: 10:14

Doot doot doot. There we go. Boom, boom, boom. Right. Is that it? Was that it? Yeah, that's the one.

SPEAKER_01: 10:21

That's it. Josh, can you see it from there? Barely. Man, I got bad eyes, bro. I've had so much surgery. So it's been it's been rowdy. I guess. I don't know. Does it oh it does it need to be plugged in? Yeah, well, me.

SPEAKER_07: 10:34

It's need to stay plugged in if possible.

SPEAKER_01: 10:36

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 10:37

I can move my mic here. Yeah. By the way, as just just throwing it out there. Has anybody ever seen Josh with glasses?

SPEAKER_01: 10:42

No. Yeah. I hide it very well, guys, by the way. Yes. Really? Caesar, I hide it very well. I actually have glasses at night because I can't even drive at night without glasses now. It's bad. So yeah. The age, the the rest of humanity calls them binoculars. Yeah, guys, I've I've been accident prone, right? I lost retinas, I had retina damage. So yeah, it's it's been a journey. So I feel like uh but he's still standing. Yeah, right. Exactly. I feel like you guys set me up to to stab myself here in front of you guys on this. But uh so basically what I was want to say too, because I can do that. Thank you so much. Yeah, sorry. Sorry, guys. No, you're good. What I want to improve before I say that is actually I was actually appreciative of PJ's post. I was not torching him at all. So I hope anybody that saw that or thought that, because I didn't think that. I thought, oh man, I'm sharing his post to ramp up what I wanted to say. So here was my post. Over the last eight months, I've watched so many realtors brag about all these new home sales they have been doing, and that they even bought their their clients big closing gifts. Well, here's the skinny beyond all the stuff that you won't hear from most. On new builds, like some of the ones mentioned here, they were offering up to six percent commission to the agents on top of buying down interest rates, all to inflate sales prices, even during a downturn market. What that has meant for so many of y'all rushing to meet the with these realtors, they say they can offer these incredible values is that they have been putting you into a negative equity situation for the next five to seven years. Yes, hear that again. Dot dot dot, five to seven years. Don't believe me say in the last in the last 24 months, we've had more homeowners come to us to save them from foreclosure because they bought brand new. Their agent made out like a bandit and did basically very little work and didn't warn them that the interest rates were only buy down rates or could change for a few years and then adjusted back along with higher rates and higher insurance premiums, coupled with the fact that the builder is still building and can offer 45K of incentives on new builds on a$240,000 price home. Yes, it's happening and you can't compete at all to sell or even rent it out. So, what has fascinated me in this business for 20 years is that when I see buyers just flock in droves to realtors that are on social media posting about the$800 closing gifts they just got to clients when they just made a whopping$22,000 commission check off them. This is not only puts these clients in incredibly tough situations to be a high owner to be a homeowner in the long run, but also highly encourages the use of non of no negotiations, no market data or interpretation of the data and even little to zero contract work done. Yes, the on-site sales offices do this for the realtor as well. At the end of the day, if this sounds like a rant, it is. And I know some may wildly oppose his view, and so I'd love to hear from those agents. Not all saying that, not at all saying that all that there still is isn't a lot of supporting work and assistance on experience, and an experienced agent can provide in dealing with the new build. Not at all. What I'm saying is before you allow the bright and uh bright and flashy signing objects, some hang in front of you, get the homework done and research first to understand just what is all going into your home purchase and know that you're in game or know you're in game before going in. That's key. Brant over. Very key.

SPEAKER_07: 13:53

No, thank you for that. Uh and I want to give perspective to that, uh, or to this whole conversation, and that's what kicked this off. And the last thing is just showing the comments and and notice. Uh I see a trend when I look at these comments. Um, and I'm just I'm not gonna mention the comments, I'm just going to see if there's a trend that is noticed. I'm noticing the ones that are commenting positively and saying yes, good job, correct, all that good stuff, are all veterans in the business. Yeah, they were all veterans that have their business secured, maybe they've had tough times, etc. But they are still ones that uh abide by their fiduciary responsibility of their client. So uh you can kill that, JC. I just wanted to uh give light to that as we open the floor up in the first question Do you guys believe that this is it shame on builder for doing this? Shame on realtor, shame on both, or um what what what do you believe there? Because there's no real right answer here. So just just to be clear, Sessa, give me 100%.

SPEAKER_04: 15:14

I am 100% pro builder. Okay, I love doing new homes. We represent a builder here in town. Uh shout out to Starlight Homes. Um and we this is not you know, against bash the builder. Don't bash the builder, they're a business, they're trying to stay open. We all remember in 2008, uh, who's ever seen a Connell Baron home? You know, who's ever seen uh uh uh what was it? Uh new new new new craft new new leaf? New leaf no no new leaf got in trouble for different reasons. Um did yeah, a lot of a lot of builders did not survive you know the crash, right? And they were really good builders, and they did not survive the crash. So I I understand what builders are doing. Builders are just trying to survive, right? Some of them I've done I've done a deal with a very, very great, amazing builder that I love. And and at the end of the day, the the sales rep said, hey, you know, we made a thousand dollars on this on a seven hundred thousand dollar home. We made a thousand bucks, dude. Like you you beat us up, but we're just trying to keep the doors open. So it's not it's not builders, you know, being mean builder. Um it's my issue is like you said, we have fiduciary duty. Every time we go to every time we go to a builder, every time I need to know the cash value. What's the cash price? Give me the cash price. That I'm so glad that you mentioned that. Give me the cash price. What is the cash price? I I all my all my people that buy a brand new home know their cash price. That means no incentives, no buy downs, no nothing. What does that look like for for your for your community? And we work with many builders here in town, and it's it's simple. You just have to inform your people what they're getting themselves into and that they're in it for the long haul. You know, I I I I I I pulled a post. I was doing some research last night, and I pulled a post from an agent, and uh I'm I'm gonna read it for Josh.

SPEAKER_07: 17:13

If you don't want to uh take a screenshot or something and share it to me, I can throw it up on the screen.

SPEAKER_04: 17:17

No, no, no, no. I don't want to because it's a very uh no, I don't want to put them on a blast. I don't want to start. I'm going on blast. I don't want to start.

SPEAKER_06: 17:26

So you know for a good cause. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 17:29

So it's an agent, you know, dancing in front of a house.

SPEAKER_06: 17:32

Uh huh. Okay. And we we talked about this uh two two episodes ago.

SPEAKER_04: 17:36

Yeah, it's an agent dancing in front of a house, you know, happy. Um, and says, you know, hey, anybody PCSing soon? Go go to Josh right now, go to his face, okay? All right, buy downs, all appliances, 3.99% interest rate, uh, ready to start your home journey. Give me a call. We can get you all the deals. Um, this is this is going, and this has a ridiculous amount of views. Yeah, um, it's I mean, PCSing. What are we looking at?

SPEAKER_01: 18:10

Temporary, how many years? I'm already sick. I yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 18:14

Well, it it has multi-layers, and I'm about to go to Josh, but there's one that probably won't be discussed that I'll give light to, and and a good buddy of mine, John Hudson, talk about it all the time is seeing sales counselors, realtors posting about interest rates, posting about different programs, and not actually being licensed to do so. And they're getting a ton of exposure for it, and it hurts everyone in the transaction. Your lender that they actually go to, the expectations of the buyer when they get the real deal. I mean, all of these things. But go go for it, Josh.

SPEAKER_01: 18:52

Well, you just started it up, and I mean, uh I love it. So here's the issue. I'm a very strong proponent for our military. I'm gonna defend them everything I could. I did not get to sign on the dotted line. Uh, so because of that, a lot of my family did. I'm always really there to support them our military first and foremost. And since we're military USA, we have most of the military here, right? And that's a lot of the clients I see in front of me now on the pre-foreclosure side because they still are active duty. You can still get PCS'd out. And when they're buying new builds with all of these incentives and these realtors bragged about all this cool shit they could give them, and they see the flashy object again. That's what my post is about. They just jump right into it. They don't understand their end game, they don't understand that their rental their rental possibilities are gone because they got to subsidize a thousand twelve hundred dollars a month just for the rental side now. Yeah, and then they move over, they're like, Well, I guess I'm gonna have to stuck this and be on base, and I can't even still afford to cover the subsidized rent on this one. So, what am I gonna do? Guess what? It's coming back to the to us and now the VA, and a lot of us we can't save some of the too, right? The VA is just like, look, man, you know, it is too too much, too much. And you gotta have buyers, and at the end of the day, you can't get buyers if new home sales are still kicking everybody's butt. True, right? So I'm glad you said that because I want you guys to everybody to put me on stand. I am not anti-builder either. Let me make sure that I'm very clear with that. Right. And again, my post, I'm I very I know I'm very uh guilty sometimes of just going all out and not covering everything because I don't really try to sugarcoat it sometimes. But yeah, new builds are are they're trying to stay in business well and they're trying to do things well. Look, there was a builder we all know, and we all know who that was. As soon as COVID hit and the market was good, they cut all real estate commissions, they were screwing realtors over left and right. All the realtors were bitching behind the scenes to the clients, like, oh, I'm not gonna ever push a client, blah, blah, blah. And then you watch them do that, and all of a sudden the builders just flip a switch, like, oh, well, now we're gonna 4% incentive. Yeah, six percent incentive, and like, oh, they're amazing. I came back. Right. We are so back, yeah, guys. And I I I just you know, I call my company Exposed Homes for a reason. And I know all three of us, I'm well, I'm all four of us, we're just so amazing to sit together because we all know we have the same ethics and the same morals when we run our business. But I tell people I'm gonna expose them to all the options and explain to them the pros and cons, right? Because if I'm just a rah-rah guy behind anybody that I get behind, then I'm going to screw somebody because I didn't look at all the options for them. Right. You'll be blindsided. And and with that post, like you said, the the experienced agents were the most ones to comment. And you're right, they got behind behind it. And and and Moses and I were joking too. We're like, man, we don't want to sound like the old guys in the room, like, oh, you whippers, snappers, or dancing, and getting these. But it the market has changed because there's not a lot of knowledge and experience, just like you talked about how agents are throwing interest rates and all these buyer lender incentives when they don't even know what they're talking about or they're licensed to do so. And yet nobody's smacking them on the hands say, Hey, you can't do that, you're gonna get fined. So everybody's just the wild, wild west. Let me go on TikTok and dance with it, some some music, and I get 300,000 views. Yeah, and now I've got 10 clients because of my TikTok.

SPEAKER_07: 21:57

Yeah, and it's almost as if they're waving it in your face, like I'm doing something that I shouldn't be doing, but look at get me business, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 22:04

Um, but she's dancing.

SPEAKER_07: 22:06

How do you say you're dancing? She's cute, right? She's dancing around.

SPEAKER_03: 22:13

I know.

SPEAKER_07: 22:14

Um on on and I'll let you jump in, but I want people to understand the concept of what the builder's doing before we move forward, and in the sense that it is it unethical. I don't believe so. I think it's an opportunity that is afforded to them because what they are taking the risk on in building out an entire neighborhood, having control over that entire neighborhood and the values. Is it wrong, right, indifferent? Well, it they're the ones that took the risk to buy that neighborhood, to develop that land, et cetera, et cetera. I'm going to compare it to every pre-owned deal that we do that the buyer doesn't have enough closing cost, and we raise the sales price. We just happen to only be able to raise the sales price so much because that neighborhood's already established with the comparables. Whereas new construction, well, that one appraised for$350. Let's try for$355 this time. Boom, we got it, and it's gradually being raised. And they've matter of fact, if they didn't appraise, no one could move forward technically, you know?

SPEAKER_03: 23:21

Go for it. When it comes down to it, it's hard conversations that are not being had. Yeah, it's we gotta offer some sort of uh value to what we do, and the value is kind of going out the window in my eyes. And this is I'm pro doing what works for my client. So would I have to have a conversation with I've got my sister in a in a Lenar home? I'm not fond of it, of the of the builder, because of so we've we've all know it. But it checked the boxes for my sister and it fit her budget. Yeah, and that was pretty much her only option. But that's a conversation you have to have. Hey, here's the pros and cons of this. And so getting like instead of finding the easiest way or like, hey, that this is the let's follow the bright lights, talk to your clients and have this conversation. The last three deals that I've done are all pre-owned. Reeve gotten$9,000 in closing costs off,$12,000,$14,000, all the additional money we use to buy down closing costs. Right. And you're going into instant equity. But are you having that conversation because I don't want to show 12 houses? Or is it easier because I could go up to 11 and get you into a house to hand them off to walk you into then you brag about it. Right. The the sales could let the sales consultant just don't mess up the deal, and the sales consultant will car sells you. And which is you're good at if you're good at it, you're good at it. So it's not a bad thing. The problem is, I believe you're not having the conversations because we get those phone calls which you've touched base on. It's just you got to know what product fits your buyer and what their end game is. Because you know, you tell your clients you live in your first house from five to seven years, you outgrow it, your family changes, your income situation changes. You may need to just move the city. Right. Then you just, hey, let me cash out on this equity and go. You can't have that conversation with someone who's going into a new home build right now, right? Which is not bad, but you got to let them know, like, hey, what you're not gonna be gaining equity because the same floor plan you just bought is being sold four streets over a year later for$30,000 less than what you bought it for. Yeah. That's a hard pill to swallow. Yeah. Because you got I teach clients, we all do, purchasing your first house is one of the biggest investments, obviously, you're gonna make, but also one of the best investments is you're gonna make. As long as you don't run your house to the ground, it's gonna gain equity. Yeah. And it's not happening, it's not happening with new home builds as as fast as quickly as fast as we would used to.

SPEAKER_07: 25:42

And and I guess I'd like to go over that to tone in on that concept because there are still folks out there that don't get that, and that's okay, but the idea of why it takes a little bit longer for the new construction home to catch up to what the true value of the market is. Does anybody want to jump in on that?

SPEAKER_04: 26:01

Let's go into the X's and O's of it at a at a fifth grade level.

SPEAKER_07: 26:04

Yes, in the sand, baby.

SPEAKER_04: 26:06

Yes. So Builder A offers a house that's worth$300,000, right? Uh, but sadly, because of the economy, because of interest rates, we're we're in a we're in a payment economy.

SPEAKER_08: 26:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 26:21

Which what can you afford per month? Back in the day, you know, you got your buyers, I'm pre-qualified for$300,000. Let's go shop for$300,000. But$300,000 over by UTSA is completely different than if you go on on Tally Road or 211. Those$300,000 can get you a lot more house. Absolutely. They can get you a great payment and everything brand new. One year bumper to bumper, two-year mechanical, ten-year structural. It's fantastic. You know, so it just depends on the goals for for that uh for that buyer. Uh, but we are in a payment economy. They need to have uh a certain payment per month, and they're tired of living in the apartment, they're tired of living in the rental, they're tired of living in in the first home, you know, that they have that they've outgrown. So what what is our option? Like we we can't take them to a bigger house over in 78249.

SPEAKER_07: 27:15

And and I would actually go as far, and and this isn't to contradict what you're saying, but to clarify, we've always been a payment economy. This is America where we live on credit, we live on the next uh budget, the next month to month. We've got 80% of Americans that maybe have two months of savings together. Yeah. Um and that concept in itself it it I'm not like I said, I don't want to contradict what you're saying because you are right. It's all it's just the ability to achieve that payment has uh uh been a lot tougher. And I think the idea of how we continue is to educate, but I think it starts with the educators first, then moving on to what they're educating on. I mean, you yourself, if you've jumped in the business 2021, you sold a bunch of houses, now it's like, holy cow, I'm trying to figure it out. Oh, new homes, new homes, I can keep paying my bills because of new homes. Do you really even have the time to understand, comprehend, wrap your head around the idea of having that conversation with your client?

SPEAKER_04: 28:25

I don't think a lot of agents do. You know, it's it's simple, you know, it's worth$300,000. The financing is gonna cost you X. Yep. Obviously, the builder already started working on uh, you know, starting a community, it's it's a big risk because you have to establish the values with all the incentives that you're giving. Uh at 3.99 will run you what$18,000 right now, plus closing costs. You're looking at another$8,000. So that's what uh$26,000. Something, yeah.$26,000 plus a title policy. So that that$300,000 home is now having to be priced at you know$326,000 to$330 uh to cover for everything. And then they're throwing in the refrigerator, the washer, the dryer, the blinds. So, you know, but they establish that neighborhood. And once it's established, you know, appraisers come around and they see, okay, there's comparable sales, that's great. But at the end of the day, it's still a$300,000 home. Now that's not a bad thing if you explain to your client this is a$300,000 home, but your financing is gonna cost you X amount of dollars. And for the market to catch up to you at that$326, five to seven years. You have to be here five to seven years. If if if you if life changes, uh, if you're PCSing and you're gonna be here for three years, walk out. This is not for you. You know, I've put I've put military in rentals this year. But you're gonna lose a client. The yeah, but I mean the F word, man, fiduciary. I mean, Both of them, I mean, I can use them in conjunction, but it's you have to be a fiduciary whether you get the commission or not. Now, as far as the market goes with the agents that we have, I think we have about 1800 to 2,000 agents holding up our market, holding up our whole market. Okay. Go into Brokermetrics and do a little bit of research, and you're gonna be shocked at how many agents have either one or zero transactions. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01: 30:25

No, no, I'm not shocked.

SPEAKER_04: 30:26

Yeah, and and it's it's we're we're you know, there's about 1800 to 2000 agents that that that are holding up the whole market of the seventh largest city in America. Now, a lot of them, yes, they started in 2020, 2021, 2022, and dollars are falling from the sky. And it's a cycle. This is part, this is part of the cycle. I'm sure back in 05, 06, 07, you know, there was a lot of builder action. Yeah, you know, I I got an 08. I didn't show a brand new home until 2011. Oh wow. Okay, because it was it was tough to sell. It was tough to sell because there were so many deals. Uh we had interest rates in the fours. Um, there's so many deals, interest rate in the fours, insurance was still manageable, and you wouldn't even bother to to go into a to into a new build, and unless the client requested it, but you wouldn't even think about it. But now we are we're up to that point where the agents don't have the skill set to go and structure a good financing deal, to go and shop, to go and and try to find something for for that particular client. Like you said, you just go up to 11, hand them off to you know, one of your favorite sales reps, and just kind of watch on the sidelines and boom, six percent commission. And that's the part that's why we're here because there's so many people on social media making it seem like it's cool to do that. Sexy, yeah, sexy, and you have all these gifts and the flat screen, so one person giving out cash, straight out cash. You're a lender. Tell me how legal is that to get it zero legal. I mean zero legal I mean hundred dollar bills on camera, shaved, you know, like here you go. And yes, I as a broker, as a broker, I was I've been a broker since I was 29. I'm I'm just like pulling my hair out. I'm like, who's supervising this person? Right, you know, and again, not hating on the hustle. I'm not okay. You gotta hustle, you gotta do what you gotta do, you gotta pay your bills. But at the same time, if you're screwing people over, come on.

SPEAKER_01: 32:31

Well, Mark, I gotta add to this because you just mentioned the F-word, Friday Share, but he was doing the math, yes, he's just doing the math. I appreciate it, but there's also a key word quality. You are grossly taking away quality when you're having to cut costs that much. He just brought it up, made perfect sense. If a builder has$28,000 of closing costs just to get the damn house sold, and then they got to go through and buy and build the damn thing and develop everything, then where are they cutting that cost? Right. And that's the conversation you have to have your clients because but but you you know, back when I started too, builders weren't cutting nearly those kind of qualities. There was one that did, and we all knew that and they were gone, field stone. They showed up as a box, it was a freaking insulated box, and it was shit junk. And I kept telling everybody LGI. I mean, I I don't mind, I don't care they hate me, and I don't sell them.

SPEAKER_04: 33:18

So I've never sold an LGI home in my career. I'm proud to say that.

SPEAKER_01: 33:22

I think we know that. I think we know why, right? And and so, but what I'm getting at is there's even builders that I won't mention that I know were really good that I know the contract managers that are having the corporate guys are like, hey, you need to cut them down to 15% on all contractors. They get them done and then they just came back again. Said, guess what? Now you need another 10%. 25% of their cost, how are those guys going to do it? Right now electricians using copper clad. Yeah, I don't know if anybody talks about that. Copper clad, what is that? It's aluminum wire and just surrounded by a little bit of copper just to say it's still copper. Wow. But it it when you bend it a couple of times, it breaks. Aluminum wire is very brittle. Wow. I know this because I talked to the contractors. So again, I know we're here to talk about you know why we bring such great value to our clients, but these realtors don't even know what goes into building a home when they're out there, like Caesar said, talking, showing dollar signs. At the end of the day, the consumer is just like just walking, just blind, like, uh, that looks good. We'll just go with this. But they have no idea what's going on behind the scenes to get that.

SPEAKER_03: 34:24

Right. It's conversations, man. Like you free basically branched off of what you didn't. What what year do we have the um broker-to-broker agreement? Two years was already a year and a half. Now we're almost second year. Second year.

SPEAKER_01: 34:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 34:38

Mind blown is negotiating. Um commissions have been negotiable since day one. Yeah. And you know why we got sued? Is because no realtor was talking to their sellers about it. Yeah. Everything's negotiable. When you tell you it's not everyone's writing six percent down, and hey, you got to pay the buyer, you gotta pay the seller, or whatever it may be. We're not having conversations, and then like and all of a sudden the world's burning, like, oh my god, now the buyers like sellers are not gonna pay commission now because they don't they don't have to, like news flash, they never had to. Like it, you now you got to bring value to it, but you've had to bring value since day one. And it branches off what you said is we're not having conversations about what you to how the quality of the house is built, to what's your end game of how much this is gonna cost you or what it's gonna be, but it's bringing value to what we do. One day we're gonna run into a buzz like we're gonna start getting slaps on the hands, and it's gonna suck because people are we're talking about interest rates, we're talking that we're giving money away and we're flaunting it now.

SPEAKER_07: 35:36

Um that I think that's what kills it the most is that well, look what happened the last time you guys got caught up in flaunting it, so to speak.

SPEAKER_03: 35:43

Yeah, they cut y'all's commissions real quick, and that's what and then and so when people like we had into we've had to have meetings, we had to roll out the new broker-to-broker agreements, and everyone's like, 'What are we gonna do?' You think everyone, all the buyers are gonna, no one's gonna want to sell. Sellers still need to sell their house, right? That's right. But the problem is, I'm like, man, we're having this conversation, like, we haven't been doing this since day one, since I've been in the business, and since y'all been in the business, nothing's like nothing's we didn't reinvent the will. You just got to have those conversations with your sellers and say, Hey, but we're not having those conversations. We're just we're door openers, we're glorified door openers.

SPEAKER_07: 36:16

That's what it seems to have become if we're having this conversation. Absolutely. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03: 36:22

No, absolutely. So that's what it looks like. So people see this like, oh, I could I could do that. Yes. But then when it comes down to like what value do you bring to the table, other than hey, I have a really good friend who sells for this community and so forth, then the the conversations aren't there, and that's where it comes, where it looks like we lack any sort of like we could be you could trip over in 2021, you got in the business, yeah, you could be the dumbest person in the world, and you could trip over and you're gonna land on three deals. Yeah, and now it's starting.

SPEAKER_06: 36:48

Yes, and now it's starting.

SPEAKER_03: 36:49

What I do love about this market is it's not it's not fun. It's it hasn't been fun for us, but we've been around still, so we weeded through it. But it is absolutely weeding out the hobbies, yeah. Like it's if you're you actually it's gonna get to the point where you gotta actually know what the hell you're talking about, and not based off of your click, how many clicks you have, but actually what you're actually bringing to the table.

SPEAKER_07: 37:08

And and Cesata, you mentioned cycle, cyclical type concept. And I believe now that you just said that, that this is another cycle of the hobbyists get out for a little while and let the market heat up again. And we unfortunately will have the same issue of new agents or unexperienced agents coming back to the market when it heats up again, and we'll be having this same conversation instead of being builders, it'll be about something else.

SPEAKER_03: 37:38

And that's one of my transactions. I'll never call another agent out just because we're all like it's we're all trying to survive, like Sasad mentioned. Re um one of my listings uh sold for 650,000. The agent very much made it very clear to me, I don't do this all the time. And can you help me do this contract? And in my head, I'm like, how did you lend a$650,000 eight client the same way we just talked about it? And I'm now thinking, I was like, I'm about to eat your lunch. Yeah, and it was that house was a beautiful house, but I knew for a fact, like, hey man, like we got to keep your dropping the price because there is some deficiencies, and she hey, I just really want this house to close. My clients like it. It looks everything's through virtual, so they're out of they have no clue, no clue. I know I'm just like, get your inspection.

SPEAKER_07: 38:24

They have no clue that she has no clue, exactly.

SPEAKER_03: 38:27

And then so she is very gladly took the the sixteen thousand dollar commission off it, and I was happy because I was like, hey man, we were still like forty thousand dollar price improvement in the future because we're just we know for sure we need to move this, but there's some deficiencies. But she and I'm I'm kudos to her for having the client. I'm glad she was able to make the money, and like I'm happy for her.

SPEAKER_07: 38:48

So that leads me to another question, and it's a little side topic, but relevant, still the same. The idea, and I call it pencil whipping when you're on the other end of a transaction and the other person either doesn't catch something, doesn't go over it with their client, what have you, and just moves forward experience versus unexperience, even an experienced agent can get a pencil whipped if they're not paying attention concept. I'm not saying it's a good, bad thing, it's just a thing. In those cases, do you think that that is unethical to pencil whip another agent? And what I mean by that is no, let's say I'm on the the buy side, and I already love the answers. I'm on the buy side, I'm representing my buyer, I'm I'm writing an offer to a seller. I put the contract together, and on the third party financing, I put 32 days for their third party financing period. They don't catch it day before closing, they're like, we don't qualify. Poop, give me that earnest money.

SPEAKER_03: 39:48

Yeah, and this goes back to this goes back to the first time we said down. Be a good human still, be a good human. We're all in the same business, but I'm also not gonna hold your hand.

SPEAKER_07: 39:57

Ethical responsibility is fiduciary to your customer.

SPEAKER_03: 40:00

I'm not gonna hold your hand. Yeah, I'm not gonna hold your hand to it if you miss.

SPEAKER_07: 40:03

I don't disagree with either side. There's an extreme to both sides. I'm one because I'm on the lending side always, that it's like, okay, I'm gonna help you and help you. Let's get this out. Let's get better.

SPEAKER_01: 40:15

So I could make a joke here about the Kansas City Chiefs and Mahomes, right? But let's let's let's do something for a minute. Let's play this exercise. If they're in practice and they're throwing the ball, let's say Mahomes is not running his pattern or is seen his patterns, right? In practice, the coaches can step up, say, hey, this is what you need to do, blah, blah, blah. Hey, actually, no, run it again. Let's try it this way, right? How many times do they get to do that in the game against the opponents? Do you think the opponents, like, hey, you know what? Hey, coaches, can you show moms a beat us a little bit more? That's bullshit. That's what I'm saying. It's getting too much, like it's fairness doctrine. If you're out on the battlefield, you that's a reason why we have the IBS for reason. Uh, the information about broker services shows that I represent my client and my client by myself. I'm not going to give away any of their position just because you don't know what you're doing. Now, I will ex- I'll be nice. And again, now I sound like an asshole, but I can walk them through it gently. But am I gonna give them something that's gonna give any of my clients position away? Hell no. No, right? I I think what's going on is most agents are expecting that happen. And if you look at some of the brokerages now, I know you guys are not like this, but I see a lot of brokers like this wildly were uh rampant, where these agents are in the business for five, six years. And guess who's writing all their contracts? They're transaction coordinators, they don't even know what the hell they're negotiating with. Right. I'm literally getting emails. Oh, this is all we have to fill out for transaction coordinator. Go, there's so many more terms in the contract than this. What about this? What about the survey? What about protrudents? Oh, we don't handle that. We just we blankly fill that out. I go, screw you kidding me. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_07: 41:46

You know, in contracts going, uh, I have did y'all know we got out 30 days? I don't care.

SPEAKER_03: 41:53

But but like for y'all salivate. I'm sure. Like when I was new to the office and I remember like Brad Burns and I got in together and we're helping each other fill out contracts, and I was like, Where do you put in sellers' concessions? But we were adamant, maybe it's because I was cheap, but I didn't hire a transaction coiner until like year two because I was like, Well, I could keep that$300 in my pocket. But like when if I were doing it and then receive, like I hand you a deal and it's like halfway through, like, I'm sure you'd salivate at the mouth. Like y'all would salivate at it, and then which is expected because, like you said, like while like I'm here to support my guy.

SPEAKER_07: 42:22

But that's also how we learn.

SPEAKER_03: 42:24

Yeah, facts. I go.

SPEAKER_07: 42:25

I've been unless it bites you in the ass and it costs you something of value that you see valuable, whether it's money, a client, what have you. Because if not, you're just going through the wind thinking you're doing it the right way.

SPEAKER_01: 42:37

I just want to tie it in. What I brought with the Mahomes thing, and then during the game, that's why there's training. That's why you have a broker that trains you and shows you how to do that and you practice. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 42:48

I mean, that's what I'm asking for support. For the rest of the population, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:52

Do you? Most of them, it's numbers, right? We know some of them that signed their life away to Zillow and look what's going on there. Yep. I again, I there's a lot of other things we can unpack there, but I guess what I'm getting at is yeah, Moses, Brad, phenomenal agents now. But you're right. If you don't know, obviously you got to learn sometime. But there's also practice and there's training that if your broker should be giving that true, that's how you sharpen the sword. Yes, and get ready for battle.

SPEAKER_07: 43:15

Absolutely. And until it's game day, you've you've got practice. Yeah. You know, sometimes two a day, you gotta do it. So to to tie this back to the builder thing, you mentioned fiduciary responsibility of the agent is to your buyer, and I've been preaching this for many years, um, was taught to me by uh some solid agents, Marcus Loffy, Andy Hilger that ran uh uh KB homes for a little while. And the idea of as soon as the realtor hands their buyer over to the sales counselor to give their financing incentives over to the builder's lender, they just showed them all the cards. And that is something that is done without hesitation whatsoever. And the idea is what if your buyer doesn't have two nickels to rub together? Do you want them to know that? What if they've got a million dollars sitting in the bank? Do you want them to know that? Property comes up short on appraisal. Well, they've got the money.

SPEAKER_03: 44:16

I've seen it. Yeah. So with your world, so before a buyer takes uh a seller takes uh an agent takes a buyer to a new home build, how many times have they ran the application through you and then took it over to a new home build?

SPEAKER_07: 44:30

Uh very few. I get that information up front and I still take the application. I'll do a soft inquiry, I'll educate them on the options of going new build versus not. I talk to them about the incentives that they're going to be hit with. I uh pull the curtain on everything. But the idea is this money is coming from somewhere. I'm not saying that I'm doing your realtor job or what you guys, but it is 1000% tied to the financing. So that is my moment to inject the truth into this situation. If you still think you want to do that, no problem. If you are pissed off at the builder's lender, they try and screw you. If they can't do the deal, come on back. I'll be here. Okay. It's simple. Like I said, it's it is what it is. I'm not going to fight over. I tell my loan officers and have for years, how do you lose something that you never had? As long as you understand the concept of oh, they're interested in new construction. Oh, builder, I have the conversation, realtor has the conversation. So if they still move forward, then it must have been for them.

SPEAKER_04: 45:35

You know? Yeah, it's it's all about just again educating, having that conversation. I I have a ritual, you know, whenever we go out and they tell me, hey, I I really want to, you know, yeah, put on the board and and and and I asked, I asked the rep, I'm like, hey, can you can you give us five? Can we can I borrow your house? You know, can I just sit here for a minute? And we'll go to just random bedroom, and I'll just I just sit on the on the carpet, and my clients are like, Why are you sitting on the carpet? I'm like, because this carpet is comfortable, and I'm 44, about to be 45. I'll take any chance. I already got my steps for the day. Um and I'm glad they love that. Sit down. Okay. So come join me. Join me. This is your yeah, we have we have a little little kumbayas or I'm like, okay, this is the deal. Okay, this is this is cash, this is financed. Um, you know, we we deal with all builders that will take care of my clients. Okay. We yes, we do sell Lenar homes. Why? Because I I get people that come in and say, I need a$1,400 payment. What other builder can give you that? Services and purpose. It's it's either that or or we end up in a part of town that they don't want to be in, uh, with a 1948 house that is sideways and with a higher payment, higher insurance, higher. I mean, at least I have you know a little blanket of security that they have uh you know a warranty, that that it's new, that it's you know energy efficient. Uh, do I agree with everything that they do? No. But I but I sit them down and I'm like, okay, guys, this is your worst case scenario. What are we planning on doing with this? Is this house number one, house number two? You know, and I already know those answers, of course, but I I try to get like, let's think of the future here.

SPEAKER_07: 47:15

Well, kudos to you for that because at least you are laying it out for them. The idea of asking for the cash value of the home or the cash price of the home, not only is it genius, but it's what you should be doing as a realtor broker representing your buyer. Why? I mean, back to Marcus and Andy, they'd walk into new and still do walk into a new construction and negotiate it just like if it was a pre-owned home. I'm not playing the games of this and that. Are you guys wanting to sell a home? Because I've got a customer that is qualified and wants to buy it.

SPEAKER_04: 47:48

In this in this market, if you're not negotiating with the builder, we just we just had one of my agents. Uh, there's a builder, uh, big shout out to Meritage. We love Meritage, we love working with Meritage. Uh, they were offering a six percent commission. And and my guy knows, you know, fiduciary comes first. Right. And he took out the sword, just started going at it, started going at it, started going all right. He calls me, he's like CA, he calls me C A. He's like, C A, um, we got him under contract, they're very happy. We couldn't secure the six percent. Said, I good for him. Yeah, I'll it it it is what it is, man. Right. And he's like, no, no, no, but I feel good about it. I feel good inside. And this is an agent that's been on the been in the business for two years, and he's like, but I feel good about it. And I said, that's what it's all about. Yeah, you know, because you put those people in the best position to win, and and you sacrificed, you know, you sacrificed that that that three percent bonus that you were gonna get, and and at the end of the day, he's like, Man, I feel good about it, you know, and the and they saw it, right? That's the that's the best part. The people knew that there was a six percent commission, and you just took that sword and like straight into the chest. Yeah, and and and he was like, Man, I feel fit, I feel good about it. But you have to they have to understand what they're what they're doing, and because we do this, you know, 247, 365. Some do.

SPEAKER_01: 49:08

Right. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 49:10

We do the good ones. Uh we do, but I mean they they buy a house sometimes once in a lifetime. Correct. You can't you can't talk fast, you can't, you know, you know, short you cut corners here and there. You have to lay it all out so they know exactly what they're doing. My job is not to sell houses. I don't sell houses, by the way. You know, I watch over people's money. That's it. I don't sell houses. That's what I think. Me too. You know, I like that. I like that. I watch over people's money. I don't sell loans, I just watch your money. If I put you in a shit house, I'm not watching over your money. Yeah, if I put you upside down, I'm not watching over your money, you know.

SPEAKER_07: 49:45

So let me ask you guys this, and and and to wrap your point, and I love it. What and I'm almost positive that each one of you have that conversation if you're dealing with new construction and a buyer of this is what you're getting, this is how much it costs, this is where the money's come from, and this is where it's going. That's why the price went from this to this, but look at your payment, etc. What allows you guys to have that conversation versus we know it's not happening quite often with many others? The the ones that just go, hey, here you go, handoff, you're in great hands. Well, I think you know, because my business is almost 100% referral. And then they'll come in, and then they'll come in and say, I think we should get an inspection. The the ruler that's representing that hasn't been there the whole time. They're like, Yeah, let's get an inspection.

SPEAKER_01: 50:36

Um, I mean, you know, following up with that question, because reputations are everything. If you've got somebody that's already respected you, has gone through it, can trust you, and they tell somebody, hey, Josh is gonna bend over backwards. And and you know when I tell my people, like, you know, I don't say it that way, like, hey, I'm here to watch over your money, but I back my own money up with their transaction because at the end of the day, I'm not going anywhere. So if I'm putting my my neck on the line, I want you to know that it's because I know this and this and this, and I want you to do that. And so I'm there to get a client for life, not just a one transaction. So that's what I tell everybody when I set up now. Say, hey guys, expose homes, legit number one. Let's talk about how I get paid. It's 3% commission, that's what it is. If there's a bonus involved, guess what? You guys get the damn bonus. I'm not here for the bonus because I want you guys to tell everybody, the person, how awesome you are. And if that's just sugar on the top, they want to give a bonus, great. We just closed a new build yesterday, same thing. And they kept arguing with oh no, no, that's your bonus. I said, I know I gave it to my client that I don't need that. Thank you. Appreciate it. Um, made, of course, he's gonna a military referral, right? But this is his fourth house too. Yeah, he's retired. You know, you got to know people's, yeah. So I think that it's just if you can get a captive audience, and nowadays with everybody wanting to quickly get text and never have an ability to have this kind of conversation face to face, have some truth said because we all know that if truth's being spoken, it's gonna get a little uncomfortable at times.

SPEAKER_07: 52:03

For sure.

SPEAKER_01: 52:03

And you've got to be willing to put that out there and just get them to understand like, look, everything I say is probably not gonna be everything you want to hear, but you need me to tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear, unless you tell me the opposite, right? I'm probably not the agent for you if you just want me to tell you what you want to hear. Yeah, and that's I think that that's it's worked out for us, you know. But it is hard to be honest with you guys, it's very hard to compete with those rotors that are out there with the all shiny, flashy object, and there's no fiduciary because once they get them signed, boom, it's it. Yeah, the dancing. I just got to get the dancing, y'all. That's that's what it is.

SPEAKER_03: 52:35

The joke is I was like, man, we're not selling enough houses because we're not doing enough TikTok dancing. That's right. I don't have the rhythm, man. I'm sorry. I'm ready to back that ass up. I would back that ass up right now. To go off of what you said, it's just uh it's when you even when we were shopping pre-owned houses and then they did advertise the concessions on MLS. There's a lot of realtors that said if you sell two percent, one percent, they're like, I'm not gonna take my seller or my buyer there. I look at it as hey man, it's either I'm gonna if they love this house, I'm gonna go sell it to them because that's my job, first off, it's fiduciary duties. Second, is if I don't get them in this house, that means I may have to show them another nine houses after that. And my time is worth more than the extra two thousand dollars I'm missing out on. So it just it, but people will absolutely you see we see it all the time is all the pages we're in is who's got a three-bedroom, two baths, eighteen hundred square foot, and who's offering the highest uh commission. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, man, dude, like it's not because you're about to give back that commission like Cesar's agent does, it's because, hey, I want the fastest way to make fifteen thousand dollars. Yeah, but it's very much like if you do everything at the right intentions, like you're gonna earn a client for life. Uh where hey, I don't care. Like, if if it means I could get my client in and I have to give up two percent of my commission or three percent of my commission, let's do it, man. Like, let's do it and let it let's keep going on the next one because you earned a client for life. We have a client right now that I've I've helped them buy three houses, I've helped their two kids buy a house. Now we're in the process of buying another house. And she tells me, Hey, Moses, you're like part of the family now, and we need your opinion. Yeah, we value your opinion. And I love it because every time they've Reef sold their first house is like a 900 square foot house in Los Angeles Heights before is Los Angeles Heights, and now they moved into a massive, like 3,000 square foot house that we've just beautiful, and now it's cool to see because they did everything that I told them, right? And not tell, hey, you got to do this, but hey, you want to invest? Hey, you should do this, you should do this, you should do this. And now they have their dream house, and now their kids are getting into their houses in their early 20s. I'm like, they're just doing what we told them to do, right? And it makes me freaking happy because it's cool to see it play out. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07: 54:44

So to to kind of go into my last topic, um I wanna hone in on the idea of because before we had rate block buys, essentially, the the uh builder forwards is what it is. The builder is buying a chunk of rates at X amount and they gotta get rid of them before before that was happening. We had the two and three, one buy down, which that is a temporary rate reduction for a year to two years. And the reason why I bring up this topic is that began uh late 2022.

SPEAKER_04: 55:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_07: 55:23

Uh we're now in 2025, so those things are gonna start hiking up to the second tier, into the third tier. Yep. Um and we're talking one percent. It's a it's a we go from five to six, six to seven. Typically, three hundred thousand dollar house, you're adding a hundred and fifty bucks per month to just write boom, boom, boom. Um and the idea was we're squeezing these people into the homes to make them affordable. We're we're just getting through so that eventually rates are gonna come down, they're gonna refinance. Well, here we are. Yeah, here we are. Two years later, two and a half years later, rates haven't come down as much as we thought they were. Um, these folks are about to incur the the next rate hike, which in my opinion, based on the builders still building, is maybe going to lead to excess foreclosures, like maybe not as bad as we saw before, but definitely something to to tell.

SPEAKER_04: 56:24

It already is. I mean, Josh can tell you, it already is, but I I don't know if you all remember this two years ago. What was it? Mary the House, not oh, date rate, Marry the House. I never I never use that line. My line was can you stomach the payment on month 25? That's it. Because that's when it kicks in, month 25. That's right. It's as oh, it's three, two, one buy down, and you know, all these years. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. It's month 25. That's right. Okay. It's it's the the third year, it doesn't go a full year, it's not three years, it's month 25. Correct. Can you stomach this payment on month 25? If the answer is yes, we're buying it. That's right. If you can't, then we gotta go back to the drawing board. Yeah, why? Because a lot of people went into and and and you know, there's a builder that uh class action lawsuit just hit uh, I want to say two of them Wednesday. Um, because and and I don't think it was to it, it's not here. Uh, I think it started in Florida, where they were doing pre-qualifications, pre-approvals, and full-on closings with um property tax as well.

SPEAKER_03: 57:29

With undeveloped one, unimproved. As soon as you started talking, I was like, are we gonna talk about the property taxes now?

SPEAKER_07: 57:36

That is still a practice that happens too. It's still going on in the world.

SPEAKER_04: 57:38

Oh, yeah, no, it's still going on, but this builder actually just got hit with now. Yes, so and they just got hit because you know, uh there's a lot of stuff, you know, going on in that lawsuit, and I'm not gonna say any names. Um, but you know, it it goes to to to to say that all those people that are in that lawsuit, who is representing them? So I'm not worried about the builder, you know. The builder, okay, the builder has the pockets to figure out what the hell is going on, yeah, because someone who needs to get fired. Who is representing those people that walked in and said, you know what? Unimproved taxes payment, top notch. They sat at the closing.

SPEAKER_03: 58:24

I don't think they're saying those words unimproved taxes payment. They're just telling you, hey, your payment is this thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_07: 58:30

But again, as an as an agent, payment shock letter that is required on that is signed but not reviewed.

SPEAKER_03: 58:36

Exactly. Like, because I you're giving them credit by saying they're acknowledging unapproved property taxes. And how many times have you run into it? You run into it where people need to sell within two years because their payment just changed by$500.

SPEAKER_06: 58:47

Oh, yeah, they go up automatically.

SPEAKER_03: 58:49

But you hit it right on the head with the unapproved property taxes.

SPEAKER_04: 58:51

Yeah, I mean, it's just how can you be the agent across the you know at the closing table and looking at that payment knowing damn well that's not gonna be their payment?

SPEAKER_07: 59:00

I mean, how is but but you're not the lender. So what what does it matter?

SPEAKER_04: 59:04

The uh again, you know, and you're talking about payment that they wanted. I I uh you're you it's outside your is it outside your scope?

SPEAKER_07: 59:11

It's not no no no it's not no because property taxes have to do with the property, yeah. So matter of fact, too many times am I the one telling the buyer about property taxes for the first time ever that we go, wait a minute, hey, next time inform them what taxes are. I I don't allow any You almost just killed the deal.

SPEAKER_04: 59:30

Yeah, I don't allow any builder. I it's the first thing we we get them, we get them ready, they're ready to buy, they go through the pre pre-approval process. And I I tell the loan officer it has to be what what's the tax rate? 2.25.

SPEAKER_07: 59:43

Okay, grab the purchase price, multiply by 2.25, and make that the you can actually do 90% of the value, 80% of the value times the tax rate, and that would be closer to I'm gonna be uh homesteaded on this property. Yeah. Um, and typically that first year they don't. Hit you with the full price, but at the same time, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:03

I I go worst case scenario, always do it. Yeah, that's some sometimes they slip it by me, right? And I'm at the closing table.

SPEAKER_07: 1:00:10

And that is why the reason why they did that is because the buyer at some point balked at something and they went, Oh, solution. Boom, we're gonna switch it to this. The buyer's now happy and at the closing table, but they didn't fully explain what's going to happen. Or if they did, the buyer went, okay, yeah, sounds good. I will still lower payment by$400 the first year. Great. Why not?

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:32

We ran into that with uh multiple clients, and it's clients, friends who didn't use me as a realtor, they're like, Hey, sorry, didn't use you, but how can I protest my property taxes? Because my payment just changed by$500. Hey, how can I do this? How can I do that? And I'm like, hey man, like, should have been known that this is unimproved property taxes, but hey, let's try to resolve it. Yeah, I want to ask a question because this is your world, like numbers-wise, like how many times have we seen short sales and foreclosures? Have you seen a massive increase? So, right now, this is makes it a real reality of yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:00

Uh right now, I mean, obviously, and and this is why I'm very thankful for the real estate community because we are such a small town community, almost all of ours referrals. So I'm paying these agents referrals on these. And most of them, they're like, hey man, they got in this situation, right? So already I was tracking it with my assistant this morning. So we've already had over 78 short sale consultations this year. I've only taken on 32 of them. So what that means is some of these people have already created their own mess. And instead of wanting to go through some financial help or some counseling, because that's part of what I do with my short sale consultations, yeah, that's what my fiduciary was. Like, hey guys, maybe we can get you out of not just letting this thing go to default. Maybe we can come into a rental position, or maybe you have other debt that you can maybe stop paying on, unsecured debt. You know, we need to talk about this. It's financial literacy. So we could really unpack a lot here. But I will tell you this right now, um, our foreclosure rates in Bear County, if you track the foreclosure sales, they haven't actually been going up like you'd think they would. Here's why. And I sat in in a crowded room in front of Freddie, uh Freddie, uh, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, some of the biggest GSEs out there. Well, the GSEs, the servicers, right? And this was about REOs and foreclosures coming on the pipeline. They're calling this month Red October because what they know and we know, and we're seeing the data because Barrack County is one of the uh most affected foreclosure uh counties in all Texas right now, if you guys didn't know that. So we're up almost 13% on pre-foreclosure data coming through. And what that shows to us is what was going on during COVID and then when the market went crazy. The lenders were remodifying these two and a half, three percent loans into seven and a half or seven point two five ridiculously high. And then, of course, the client, once that new payment kicks in, now they really can't afford it. So what are they doing? They're adding it onto their rears. Usually, if it's an FHA loan, they're doing it through a HUD uh variance, right? Uh or a HUD partial claim. And then they're just sitting there on second lean, just hoping the values are going up. But guess what? Now the values are not going up, so they're coming back down and they are done with loan modification options. They don't know what to do. And these lenders are being forced now through all the GSEs handing things down, FHA, VA, saying, hey guys, you guys got to start figuring out how to get these non-performing notes under control.

SPEAKER_07: 1:03:11

Yeah. I mean, and first step to that was the forbearance multiple times. And let's face it, the reason for the delays is the investor, the servicer, they don't want to own more properties, especially ones that are not worth it. I mean, what are they so they're gonna give all the opportunities and these buyers they just want out, I would imagine. Um, so I I think we are seeing a rise in foreclosures. I think we're gonna continue. I pulled some data real quick, JC. If you could throw this up on the screen. Um let's see here. I asked it, are foreclosures rising? If so, what what kind of tracking measures are you doing? Uh, here's some data that points to market signals that suggest negative negative equity risk is present or growing for new buyers. Negative equity is rising again. Uh, one recent summary states the negative equity among mortgage holders increased about one percent um from 0.6 percent a year from the year prior. Uh historically 2007 crash. Let me see here. Premium new construction. Uh, the price premium that new constructions use to command over resale is dissolving in many markets. Uh, so I think that that is going to bring a lot of things back, and it won't be quick, but it it's definitely going to their homes are not going to appraise come next year, and then it'll they'll start tapering down, if that makes sense. Yeah. Um immediate depreciation risk for new home purchases. The buyer closes at full list plus incentives. Then shortly after the builder cuts prices on nearby units. Um, the buyer home is already disadvantaged. The competitor sells with undercutting their equity. That I saw firsthand, friend of mine in Houston. She's buying a brand new home. Literal, another friend that we actually know calls Kristen and says, Hey, I want to buy this pre-owned home. Uh one directly from the builder is selling at uh what is it, 400,000. The used one, slightly used, a year old, is selling$40,000 less. Which do you pick? Yep. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:25

Well, I've got one right now that we're dealing with on the pre-foreclosure side. It's a VA deal, two of them in the same neighborhood, both Perry Homes. Perry Homes still building them and closing them at$455,000. But these homes uh got one that appraised through the liquidation appraisal uh at$340, or under contract at$320. The same kind of model that's actually inferior to the subject, the V8 came out and some jackass appraiser, and I would love to say his name because he's a dipshit. He's he appraised it for$455,000. I know who it is. Well, and so I'm arguing with the VA right now and I'm going way up the chain and they're shooting back like, well, he's provided these kids and comps. I go, guys, if I produced comps that only showed new builds when this is a three-year home, I'm sorry. What what origination purchases are allowed to use new builds for three year old homes? Do you guys know any? Because I don't. No. And and they are all just rejecting the data, and it's like nobody's paying attention to what's going on at the baseline. That's right. Right. And so we're having these conversations now with these new executives because I used to have really good context and I went to Dallas and go, wait, word so and so go, oh, they're gone. Yeah, this, right? So a lot of people change. Wow. So what's going on now? If you ask me on that, we'll never have an 08 crash. Let's just get that out of the way, guys. That was a whole nightmare created by derivatives, you know, uh market, uh, you know, Wall Street versus going on to Main Street. But what we have now is that we've been kicking the can down the road for too many homeowners that were having issues, they got in the negative equities equity situations. New builds are one of them because of this reason. Right. And now they're like, okay, we've done everything else we can to put band-aids on but band-aids, but yet the waters are still coming legal. What do we do? Yeah, and that's where that's where we're at right now.

SPEAKER_07: 1:07:09

Man, good good point. Well, uh, guys, we've now reached a little over an hour. Pretty good discussion that we have here. Um, as we close this out, who wants to add something to the end of this conversation? Anything that would help the realtor, buyer, because we can't speak for the builders, we could say what we want, they're not gonna listen anyway.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:32

Well, I actually wore a jersey to show something very supportive of what's going on. So, Project Marvel helping San Antonio and all of us needs to happen. I just really believe it. I was in Indy this weekend. If you guys haven't been in Indianapolis, their city kicks our ass in so many levels. I'm like, why? We like they're way down the list. We're seventh in the nation, and yet we can't figure all this out. We need to have an urban development like we've never had before. So I would say that's number one that would help all of us. Let's just say that for the San Antonio markets.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:01

Vote vote, yes, please vote, yes. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:04

That's what I wanted to say about that. But maybe you guys can add the go ahead, guys.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:08

So um, I I I would say for for you know any consumers watching and realtors watching, um, we're I don't know. I mean, I'm a big fan of the movie The Big Short. Uh same here too. And if you watch the end of it, you know, you see you you see the cycle starting again. You know, the realtor, you know, we're in a little goalie. We're in a little goalie. At the end, at the end of that, uh, you see the what do you see the realtor doing? The realtor's in the training. Okay. I think we're we're we're over-trained and bullshit that we don't need. We are absolutely 100% over-trained and overcoached and bullshit that we don't need. Okay. We need we need X's and O's. We need CMAs. We need how to write a contract, we need how to speak with clients about hard topics that they need to hear, versus, you know, how do you feel today? You know, or you know, let's go out and win the day. What the fuck does that mean? Go and win the day. Like, am I am I going to like like pick a basketball and like win that day or pickleball? So we need those actual, you know, trainings and coachings, and we need team leaders, we need brokers that take responsibility for their agents. So they're not out there acting. We're the only profession that will automatically and you know, we will, we we dilute ourselves. Yeah, you're accepted, you're accepted, yeah. We dilute ourselves because we we allow all this to happen. Sometimes we promote it, yeah, and we award it. Yeah, you know, we're like, oh, you get an award because you have so many followers on Instagram, but you suck right on a contract. So I I'm I'm I'm I'm old school and I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for saying some of these things, and that's perfectly fine. Uh, but a great agent needs to know the X's and O's, needs to know an exit strategy, needs to have those tough conversations with people. I don't get hired all the time because like like like Josh said, I I'm I I'm I'm referral-based. You know, I'm gonna tell you the things that you don't want to hear. That's right. You know, when we go shoot looking at at homes, um, my job is to make sure you don't buy that house. My job is to find all the bad shit in that house. So if if if agents focused on that, they would be more prepared for the next phase of this cycle. The next phase of this cycle is not gonna be pretty for agents. It's not, it's gonna be brutal, bloody. That's where I came into the market. You saw it, and it was rough. I mean, talk about doing four open houses, eight hours every Saturday, eight hours every Sunday with one person showing up. Yeah, that's how my career started, you know, and and some of these agents, yes, we have social media, we have all these other tools to get you in front of thousands and thousands of people. But at the end of the day, people that are serious will need a true expert in in real estate. Yeah, you know, I I once heard somebody say, um, and and I just could not believe I heard it in a room full of agents. Uh, if you want to be successful in real estate, don't focus on real estate. Focus on sales. And I said, rewind that back. If you want to be successful in real estate, do not focus on real estate. What? Focus on sales. And I said, how does that make any sense at all for what we do as experts, as fiduciaries, as advisors?

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:34

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07: 1:11:35

You want to be a great attorney? I want to go out and get sales. Yeah, go get sales. You know, go, go, go, go do your thing. You raise a great point, and and it is uh almost a point for another discussion, yeah, in itself.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:49

Yeah, again, not not not dogging on the agents, no, not at all. You're just calling it what it is. Brokers, team leaders, you know, handle your business, your parents. Yeah, as a broker, I've I've been a parent of many agents. Okay. I always call my kids, my kids, you know. My my my oldest agent is uh 75. Shout out to Renee, sub Renee. Um and but I always call my kids. Why? Because I'm responsible for them and everything that they do, and I I don't babysit. Yeah, none of my my agents can handle their shit. Yeah, okay, because they get trained on what's important. Now, if they want to, you know, pivot from there and do some social media, do some other other things that are cooler, go for it. Yeah, but that's where this is not a dig at agents. This is like brokers, team leaders, um, everybody that that uh that that is in charge of of of agents, train them train them on what's important. Not train them on their yeah, not what's sexy or or their feelings, you know. You don't don't do that. You're hurting them for the you're the next the next piece of the cycle, the the next it's not gonna be pretty for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_07: 1:12:54

I mean it's gonna appreciate the honesty, yeah, because the idea is they are not learning properly, they're not learning what they need to learn to represent their customer, their client. In the end, that's the person that matters. Exactly. Yeah, if this person, the realtor, doesn't know their job, that's okay. They've got a broker as long as they're empowered enough and feel confident enough to ask their broker when there's a question, when there's something, I have no problem with that. Yeah, it's the ones that think they know everything that are doing their buyers injustices over and over.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:30

If you're a broker, and I'm looking at the camera, if you're a broker, team leader, you know, anybody in charge of ages and you're doing your job, thank you. You're doing our profession a service, and I thank you for that, but because we're all trying to survive, this is a this is a profession that is trying to survive right now. Yep. So if you're doing your job, thank you. I thank you. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:51

Moses, what you got? Um Brian Schaffer, you were in an industry that's under constant attack. At one point, they're gonna get to the point where the open doors, the redfins, everyone. We're at we're basically going through a time where they're basically pointing out realtors are not needed. We have the information at our fingertips. There's people are selling convenience. We gotta start bringing value to like what you just said. Um, and this is no way a shot at all the realtors. I've almost part of it is jealous that I don't have the the rhythm to do the TikTok videos or even the idea of like I have the confidence that I don't do it, but I bring to the table experience and I just do everything. You just do everything with the right intentions, what I believe everyone at this table does. But we are under in an industry that where we're trying to get weeded out, like we don't need realtors. We don't why do we need you? If I could just walk in a new home build and you're just gonna get your commission for what you do, you point him in the right direction. Um, but yeah, we gotta start.

SPEAKER_07: 1:14:48

Imagine if that was the case, we'd be in some shit within a couple of years.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:52

Oh turmoil. Fact. We just gotta start bringing value to what we do and take some pride in what we do and then um do everything in the right direction. Like I said, you need leadership. Don't pick your mentor off of Instagram followers. Yeah, don't pick your leaders or the the broker you're going with because it's a cool thing right now. I will be a very strong advocate for KW because that's where my first seven years was, and it was an absolute open door policy.

SPEAKER_06: 1:15:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:16

I could walk into Josh Boggs' office, I could walk in anyone's office, I don't know what I'm doing. Hey, this is how you do it. So pick your leaders, pick your mentors, pick your team leads, pick your brokers with hey, I want to be in this industry for a very long time and not for instant gratification because I see all your closings and it look really sexy, but there's times change. So pick your leadership, pick your, like I said, just take some take some time to think of that of who you're investing your time with in.

SPEAKER_07: 1:15:41

Absolutely. Well, gentlemen, thank you for that discussion today. Uh, I've learned a lot in this and uh new new new new form friends right here. Thank you, man. You know your shit, brother. I like it. Um for those of you out there tuning in, listening to this, uh, there's one point that I want to drive home. Uh, and that is lower rates doesn't mean a better deal. Make sure you are looking for equity, transparency. And in the end, question everything. Um that being the case, guys, we will catch you on the next one.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:39

What the hell? A thousand twenty-one likes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:46

I know that's just that's just likes, dude. I don't even know how many views that has. I saw it and I was like so many violations, so many why would you do that to a military family, man?

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:00

I I I would have known that so many. I'm gonna have to go on there and and comment on that. But you know what? You just become a hater. No, you look like a hater now. Right. Well, and here's the other thing too, guys. When I posted that because there's so many times I want to rant, right? But I've noticed, even like with the Charlie Kirk incident. For one, I just said pray for Charlie Kirk and I got my ass handed to me, my people in our industry.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:20

Have you seen the thing? I said, man, no violence revived. Look how you fire enough to get more Trump income. I mean after Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:34

I've done that multiple times. I said, when did I mention Trump once? Right, exactly. I've lost a lot of and I deleted a lot of people. I've deleted a lot of people just off. I'm like, bro, I don't want to be associated with you. Like, like you really this brainwashed or something. But we all the time I'm like, man, just it's you want to speak up on stuff. Yeah, like I can't. I'm not trying to get in this argument today. Yeah, it's right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:55

I'm gonna be sucked into it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:56

I think we I think we got into one on the news station, and I'm like, man, I opened up the fucking can of words on this.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:01

Like I do mind the Hilton algorithm of I mean ghost and toast.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:08

Post and ghost. That's what yeah, I see it's hard to stay like oh and I've also been adamant. I'm not gonna lose friends over politics. I can still be your friend and learn it all for the same reason. And the ones that you do are if I'm your friend, like start fucking friends. I'm not an asshole, bro. Like, I'm seriously.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:24

Um it's I I right now after this, I I'm gonna go see the she's one of my clients, one of the probably the leading um the leading radio LGBTQ post uh uh radio host in the nation. She's one of my clients. She's relocating.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:42

And let me guess, she's not woke.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:44

Uh I I don't think we each other, I don't think we give a shit. Like I don't think we care, you know. Good point. It's like so then she's not woke.

SPEAKER_07: 1:18:55

Yeah, no, she's the reason being is she would have already gotten that out of the way. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's not her.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:01

Not a single mention to anything.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:03

She just has plenty of good ones out there with yeah, she's not a mention.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:09

And she's the coolest lady ever. You know, obviously, you have to be careful what you say because you want to be respectful, yeah. Just like anything, just like with any culture. Uh, you know, if you're gonna any business, any bit the room, read the room, yeah. Read the room. Uh, but we got along like right off the bat. She she's like, Wow, you know, I bought a house before, I never had this much fun. Yeah, on the first day of looking at houses. That's cool. And then yesterday I sent her out with my with my uh showing partner, uh, and she texted me back. She's like, Wow, I want you to. I had more fun with your showing partner than you.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:44

I was like, There you go.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:46

Yeah, and and we're and and just again, it's we've we've reached a point where we don't we don't we we've decided not to talk to each other because people will tell me, you know, I'll say one thing I was like, Oh, you're a Trumper. I was like, time out. Let's discuss the issue. Yeah, you know, let's discuss the issue. Let's go one by one. Let's go one by one. Let's heal it back. Why did I get here?

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:08

Like, how did I?

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:09

Yeah, how did you get there? You know, and that's when they just go batshit crazy and they they don't want to talk to you anymore because they can't talk.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:18

I never once mentioned a job. I just said, man, this is commenting off the like a dude died, man.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:24

It's fucked up. For real. Go back to the core, yeah. Go back to the core morals of human. I don't give a fuck if I hated you. Like I had someone brought it up on my status. Like, well, he called um uh George Floyd a uh scumbag, and I was like, bro, why are we bringing up George Floyd first off? And second is man, dude, like they both shouldn't have died. How about that? Yeah, yeah. I don't give a damn like what it is, what your stance is, nobody should freaking die. Like at the hands of another person. And so outside, but that's rerun. I run into that a lot where people and it's a realtor, a realtor was going back and forth on me to call me racist because I didn't agree about his Colin Cavernet today. Like, he's like, You're just a racist. Like, no, you're just terrible at football. Like, how about that? Like, you're a racist.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:13

Yeah, can I just say common sense like no guys?

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:23

I'm gonna say this. I got friends on both sides, and I'm gonna say the name calling the name calling is what needs to stop because people think they can. I mean, we don't can't say the n-word out loud.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:33

You don't have an arch you can.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:34

Well, I well, you know what's funny. Growing up in high school, I was one of the only white guys that could. That's funny because I was I played basketball, I was down with them, they knew it. I grew up in the street. You know what I'm saying? I was born in Mexico for fuck's sake. But yeah, yeah, oh yeah, but you can't be a Trumper because you're from Mexico, right? My cousins love them.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:54

Same like that. But once it goes to the point where it's like you're calling names, I'm like, all right, we're past this debate now. And I was like, second, is you want to turn petty, we're not gonna go lower. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:05

Yeah, we're no longer debating. No longer debating, but what you're doing though, and this is what I'm trying to explain the argument, is you're de demonizing a human being and getting people behind it. That's why so many people were happy about Charlotte Kirk. Because I was like, why are people celebrating this guy got murdered and executed on wife TV? And people are like, Yeah, good, that's a what racist piece of shit gets. I'm like, Do you know who he is? And I claim to I said, Do you do you follow anything? Don't need to. I've already seen the clips, blah blah blah. There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:33

So because people said it, you just jumped out. So my argument's always been if your source is social media, then no one have the conversation.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:39

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:40

If it's lazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:42

15 years ago, I told my wife, I said, you know, I think we have a mental issue problem. Oh, yeah. Back then, mental health is being celebrated. Back then, it wasn't it wasn't mental health, wasn't even mentioned. Yep. I'm gonna tell you right now, we we we yes, we have a mental issue, mental health issue problem. The problem we have right now that is alive and well, is the damn algorithm.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:02

We have an algorithm, your algorithm is did you watch the principle with Jim and Matt and Steve? Yep. That we went in depth on the algorithm.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:15

The algo as we have an algorithm, which my my attorney, one of my best friends, exactly correct, we're polar opposites politically speaking. And one day I just said, Brandon.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:24

Let me see your feed.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:25

Let me see your feed. Let me see what you're looking for, and and yeah, I'll show you mine. Yeah, yeah. And boy, talk about black and white. Uh-huh. And I said, That's what you're seeing every day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:34

Because he's one of those that get putting their shit in our feed and our shit in theirs. Piss them off.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:40

The higher ups are eating it up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Today, meta's meta at today. It's sad and the division is real and it's all self-inflicted. And it's uh it's crazy because it's a reading comprehension issue per half because it takes some time. If you actually motherfuckers are counting Tylenol, and said the blue, he didn't say Tylenol positive. Yeah, he said it may lead up, it raises the risk.

SPEAKER_05: 1:24:11

And if you're Tylenol said you should CNN, flip this worry out, raise the risk.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:17

It doesn't mean you motherfuckers are pounding Tylenol because I'm just like, man, you know, and then you can't argue with people like this. And then people like, and it's it's like you're hard. Yep, I know. And people say, like, you know what I'm saying? Because we're gonna argue about if we were arguing about religion, I could go to your religion and say, it is stupid that you think you're gonna die, and you have 21 virgins and 500 goats and all that. I think it's stupid, but you were raised by that. And I who am I to say it's stupid? You could look at my religion and say, So Jonah really got swallowed by a well. Like you so you're saying that in a lion's Dan, you survived a night. Like it sounds stupid to people, but it means something to me. It's entrenched in you. It means something to me. And who am I to be like say that sounds stupid to you? Yeah, and I'm very adamant of bro, if you want to marry a goat, you want to marry a man, you want to marry this, you're happy, have at it. Don't force it down someone's throat. Live your life, bro.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:11

Sounds pretty commonsensical. And it's and that's you're asking for too much, you're asking for common sensors.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:17

Yeah, that's such a scarcity, and then that's what it is. It's what once it's forced down someone's throw, I'm like, hey man, like, do you, but like, why do I have to conform to you? Like, I'm gonna respect you, but y'all don't have to fall into your like cool, bro. Be happy. The reality with this is one of it just a big cyop. And then what in-game is when it comes down to is oh, it's a sin. No, this is a sin, this is a sin, this is a sin. I'm saying, bro, bro, that means more space in heaven for you, motherfucker. Like, at their city, who am I, but who are you to tell you? That means I'm gonna make it who am I to tell you? I'm gonna make it heaven.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:52

This being your first time.

SPEAKER_07: 1:25:54

Uh, what helps is at the end of the day today, I'm gonna send you guys a link with a Dropbox. It will have 40 clips with reels already done. Download whatever you want and share it. This will go live next Wednesday on social media.

SPEAKER_05: 1:26:09

And promoting it helps get the views.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:11

The bigger the funnel collaborating with all that, the bigger the funnel, the better. That's right.

SPEAKER_07: 1:26:15

And our markets tap into each other's markets. No, I didn't start this bus this podcast to get business, but we do end up getting business.

SPEAKER_05: 1:26:23

Which is about us because we're um and that's just kind of how it works.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:27

Yeah, no, it works. It works. Um we have our guy in uh in uh he won't need to do anything. Okay. They're done.

SPEAKER_05: 1:26:37

You can just do it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:41

You should put uh four. Uh what I will say, I don't care. Mark's gonna have your phone on our mark. You've got you've got to hold the platform. And I think you guys are on the precipice of hopefully maybe never being as big as uh uh Charlie Kirk or anything like that, but I'm saying we have to have this open dialogue. So opposing views and doing something like this, yeah, getting everybody oh, are we supposed to do it? Oh, okay. I'm sorry, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 1:27:15

I need to start doing that. Thank you. Anyway, I think open our group message.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:23

Please, yeah, please send that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:27

Yeah, add access our AME.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:33

It's it's what we have to have nowadays. And now you guys try to run for political office. I I gotta talk into it, and I went to the first uh login meeting, and I tell you what I'm trying to get right out of it because I mean well, no wonder I I fucking didn't have a hate that we're all gonna see if they talk about that because all it was nothing positive. It was just like, can you believe these teachers are doing this? We need to figure out how to stop them, we need to get this. No solutions, no, that's all it is. That's the one I want to do. And I think in the open dialogue, because we all start to realize we're not all gonna agree. No, I can agree with what everything is, but we have to at least understand that we have empathy and understand what people are walking.

SPEAKER_07: 1:28:14

Here's what the strangest, funniest, most uh uh uh uh fascinating. We all all probably agree on 80% of everything. Yeah, weird, but yet we focus on the 20% the 90%.

SPEAKER_03: 1:28:33

Yeah, what you said in that post is I guarantee you it's probably crossed your mind, or to an extent I crossed my mind. It's it takes some balls to post. I was like, man, he went he chose islands today.

SPEAKER_05: 1:28:46

I said podcast. That's what I was like, I'll leave the game.

SPEAKER_03: 1:28:50

Let's go back to we gotta get back to a comfort level of like, I don't want to get canceled, I don't want to get canceled, but you said it like hey, I'm established. Like we've got it, we gotta mention shit now. Because if shit just keeps going swept under the rug, all of a sudden we're gonna have an avalanche of like we we should we're the only profession that dilutes themselves.

SPEAKER_04: 1:29:06

Yeah, so it's the only profession that dilutes themselves. We keep on there, you know, lowering the bar, lowering the bar, lowering the bar, lower like we're we're we're again talks about it. A general a generation of of of you know glorified door openers.

SPEAKER_03: 1:29:20

We made it worse. If we make it worse for ourselves, and then you go, I guess you can you go to fucking Groupon and become a licensed realtor. Like Groupon for$500,$400. Yeah, and I'm just like if we're giving you someone just bought a$500,000 house, like the person who represented that uh buyer, she made it very clear. Can you help me? And she and this is uh and I love Jeff because we're obviously partners. She's with Red Bird. She's like, I'm scared to ask Jeff. And I said, Jeff's a good dude. That's Jeff's dude. But she's all but that's if she's scared, it's because she's doing something wrong. And she's scared of the repercussions of Jeff feeling, hey, what's she? And she told me, I said, Yeah, I know Jeff. I was like, Yeah, Jeff's gonna help you. Absolutely and she's like, Well, I don't want to just sound so I said, Jeff, like, I know Jeff. He's gonna help me. And she's just like, and she got some help from him, but I'm like, hey man, like it blows my mind, like, how the fuck did you land a$650,000 client? And I'm telling you, the house was shit, like everything was on to seller's disclosure.

SPEAKER_07: 1:30:16

So I have a question for you because you raised that. Is the issue the new agent that got into business and captured that deal, or is the issue the lack of education on the buyer or seller side for hiring that agent to try and save the money? Oh, buyers know. Does that make sense? Can we put it on the agent? You closed your first deal at some point, yeah, absolutely and guarantee.

SPEAKER_03: 1:30:41

You have a video until you make it to an extent. Correct. But it's also very much of a buyer, we have so much information at our fingertips. But like, for example, if Cisco's my client and he works for Toyota, I tell my clients very much for doing a buyer's consultation, I don't know shit about Toyota. And I'm gonna treat this like if it were my first day. I'm gonna ask you a million questions about Toyota. Yep. I need you to treat me like that. It may sound stupid to you, but I'd rather you ask me than Google it. Yeah, because if you end up on Google, all of a sudden you got a tumor and you got three months to left. So as I tell my clients, but it's so buyers to an extent is almost at fault. But if I go to a doctor, I'm not gonna know if that doctor started one started his first day. You're right, or 10 years, because I'm gonna say you're a fucking doctor. I hope you know. You made it. Yeah, yeah. I hope you know what you're doing. I don't care if you're last in your class or first in your class, you're still a fucking doctor.

SPEAKER_07: 1:31:27

Well, that that's that's hate to shameless plug, but that's literally why we created Lone Bot for buyers to pull back the curtain, be transparent, show them what they can actually do. And I mean steered. Then be the experience be the fucking expert that says this is the one I recommend and why, because you told me this, this is your scenario, and it forces the lender to ask those questions that and no feats of the fire because you that's the high trust interview.

SPEAKER_03: 1:31:54

When you get an educated buyer and they're like, Well, and I name something, like whatever it may be, like your escrow accounts, whatever stuff like we talk about every day. It's like, okay, yeah, I was reading on that. I'm just like, good, because now she's gonna hold me accountable. She's gonna ask, Well, what is this? And what about this? And then you've got to be like, no, no, that's only for conventional loans, or this is if you've got 20% down. Oh, okay, then that makes sense.

SPEAKER_07: 1:32:15

So there's buyers that are really educated, and you've got to well, there are buyers that are educated to the point that they can find the information, but the realtor needs to be there to help them apply that information and to back up what they read at research, because at the end of the day, I can read laws all day long, but I can't apply them correctly, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:32:36

So that buyer, they're uh dentist, they're dentists in Alaska. So obviously they're very educated. Sure.

SPEAKER_07: 1:32:41

Like I would assume they were in whatever they're educating in their field.

SPEAKER_03: 1:32:46

Yeah, so I'm assuming they found the buyer, uh the buyer's agent through like a referral, or maybe they clicked on someone's TikTok, or they clicked on, oh, they seem like they got a million views, and they must know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:32:57

Well, that's what it is, and our sentence because we're the lowest bar to entry. Um$600 in a weekend, you can get your license. Just like Steve Collins would always say, he goes, you know what? If I was gonna be putting in$8,500 and I was told I gotta win a race, every licensed person can drive a car, but I'd rather have Mario Andretti driving than you know my own son, Josh Collins. Right. They might have the same equal license, but don't nearly the same experience, right? And what happens in this industry because there's so much unpacked about it, is that and I just had this happen this morning. It was so funny. One of my buddies I've known for 14 years and helped him buy his first house. Hey man, I just want to let you know, dude, think we're gonna go with our other agent because we've known her for so long. She's such a nice girl, and we just felt so bad that we didn't give her the business. And that happens a ton all the time. You know, and how how do you how do you go back and be not the dickhead? You know, but like, wait, wait, wait. I looked her up. Do you want to really know how many deals she's right? I'm not gonna.

SPEAKER_07: 1:33:50

And an even sadder point to this is the only industry, and maybe not the only industry, where experience versus non-experience will get you the same paycheck. Boom.

SPEAKER_05: 1:34:01

Yeah, boom, yeah, that's what you just made three percent and I like what yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:34:07

The new the newest thing that we're working on is is AI, right? Oh but now people what people are doing. Let me know. I'm gonna nervous and what what people are doing is they're educating you because Google's gone. I'm not gonna say Google's gone, but it is something that the more comfortable people get with chat because Google is still very Google AI a lot. Yeah, the more people get comfortable with Gemini, the more people get comfortable with Perplexity with Rock. Um, they just they set their scenario and the last the last seller consultation I had, um, I just ask. I always assume if they just call me from because I'm I'm I'm just like Josh, I'm referral-based. Yeah, yeah. If if if they found me online, I I usually it's Google, right? You know, or the Better Business Bureau. And I said, How did you find me? He's like, Well, you know, we went on on Co-Pilot, uh, which is uh Microsoft, yeah, and we kept on asking you, kept on giving prompts and prompts and prompts and prompts, and your name kept on popping up. You kept on popping up consistently. Then we finally looked you up, and I said, Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_05: 1:35:11

And then hey, he's good looking. I was like, Hey, what's the air? It's good. What's the what's the can't pronounce his last name, but so they called me, they're like, That's how we found you.

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:22

I sat down and I'm like, So, and they're both engineers, you know, software engineers. And I said, Okay, walk me through it because how yeah, yeah. And I called one of my my my client Panos, who's a uh machine learning AI professor at Trinity. I was like, So, how does it work, man? Where does it pull the information from? Because I want to be on there all the time. And he says, Well, you know, you I I remember giving you your review, your Google review. Just remember those reviews are like locked and sealed, nobody can see those. AI can't see those. So they go to everywhere else. Exactly correct. Uh, and they go to like random websites like expertise.com, uh fast experience.com, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:36:02

You know, those that don't have access, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:05

Yeah, they they your AI will not go into Google reviews and read you. So they go through, they go through Zillow, they go through all these other places, and he's like, What you need to do, and this is the nugget for everybody to take home. You what you need to do is mention your experience, mention your reviews, how many you have, awards, and all that on random places, because that's where AI is going to find. Look yourself up again, and it'll give you the sources. Yeah, it's AI.

SPEAKER_07: 1:36:35

Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:37

Um that's how you're because people are getting more and more comfortable with just going to chat and be like, hey, what do I do about this? What do I do about that? We we went to California. Uh, my whole trip was planned. I didn't have to do anything. My whole I had to rent the car, I had to buy the uh the flights, and I got the Airbnb. Everything else was fully planned by chat, like the whole thing. I said, I have I'm a family, we're a family of four, my children are these ages, we're going for these concerts, we're doing this, we're doing that, da da da da da da da da da da da. And it gave me like a full itinerary for every freaking day.

SPEAKER_07: 1:37:10

Every freaking day, you know, allergies, I used everything multiple times in a day and have been since day one. I before anybody even knew about it, we were using it to build.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:20

I I know I I I woke up at two midnight last night. I couldn't for some reason I couldn't sleep. And um I have my phone. I don't want to go on anything. Let's go into it. Um I'm gonna wake up uh 3 a.m. when the market opens, and I wanna deploy X amount of dollars, uh, and I want to do a scalp that nets me at least 10%. So give me the five stocks that have the you know the highest probability. Broke it all down for me. From there, I went on to onto X and started doing research on all of them. This is while I can't sleep. Yeah, well, hang at that center front, you know, yeah, and we're all in the okay, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, did my research, picked my stock, put it, set it, turned off the phone, woke up, and I was like, I thought my wife I was like, I did that while I was sleeping, but I didn't sleep that I did. She's like, What? I'm like, I know because I'm a man, yeah. But yeah, I mean that thing is wild, but that's in our business, it's it's become such a such a tool. In every business, yeah, it's become such a tool.

SPEAKER_03: 1:38:41

But it's hard, but that's where it is where we're under attack because after a while, like people are like, Why do I need a realtor? Like, if AI just keeps developing, like, why do I need a realtor? That's where you gotta bring value. Like, we gotta bring value. I'll be in Mexico.

SPEAKER_05: 1:38:53

That's why we also came out with bone bot. I'll be in weapons. Uh not joking.

SPEAKER_03: 1:39:01

We can eliminate your fingertips now. It's a we're gonna generate we're everything that's convenience.

SPEAKER_05: 1:39:08

But we're good to go.

SPEAKER_01: 1:39:10

All right, guys.

SPEAKER_05: 1:39:11

I know you're like awesome. Like I said, you'll have all this by the end of the day all they put up out. Very nice to meet you, man.

SPEAKER_07: 1:39:20

Yeah, I gotta hang out, man. If you're still sending out free approval letters and praying your realtors send you the next lead, you're already behind.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:28

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