Why Are Loan Officers Struggling in Today’s Market? | Loan Officer Survival Guide

Why Are Loan Officers Struggling in Today’s Market? | Key Factors Podcast

The mortgage industry isn’t what it used to be — fewer deals, tighter inventory, and a new kind of buyer mindset. In this episode of the Key Factors Podcast, host Mark Jones is joined by Joel Comp, Clarisa Garza, and Nichole Aguero to unpack exactly why loan officers are struggling right now… and what it takes to break through.

We’re talking:
 • How to build authentic, equal partnerships with Realtors
 • Why structure, systems, and consistency are make-or-break
 • The shift in buyer expectations and how to compete on value, not just rate
 • The critical need to stay sharp and be a student of the industry
 • And the blind spots created by over-relying on tech

Whether you’re new to the business or a seasoned LO trying to regain your footing — this episode is full of real talk, actionable strategies, and some tough love.

Listen in, level up, and don’t let this market beat you.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Our Panel of Experts
• 12:02 Why Loan Officers Are Struggling Today
• 28:42 The Value of High Trust Conversations
• 39:39 Challenges with Overtime Income Calculations
• 53:37 Learning from Mistakes and Setting Expectations
• 1:05:07 Technology Adoption and Productivity Systems
• 1:18:03 Competing with Builder Lenders
• 1:30:52 Actionable Strategies for Success

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

And welcome back to another episode of Key Factors Podcast Real Estate AF, where the AF stands for and finance, and I'm your host, mark Jones, and we are powered by ReviewMyMortgagecom, the largest index of mortgage programs in the nation. And on today's discussion, we will be chatting about something that I believe has risen in popularity in social media chat rooms, especially in the loan officer chats that I'm seeing, and it has to do with loan officers struggling in today's market, and I brought along some guests today, so I'm going to introduce them quickly, row by row, one by one, and then I'm going to give them a moment to tell us about themselves. So, starting all the way to my left, I've got Clarissa Garza how are you doing? I'm good to give them a moment to tell us about themselves. So, starting all the way to my left, I've got Clarissa Garza how are you doing? I'm good. How are you Doing? Well? I've got Nicole Aguero how are you? I'm good. How are you? Awesome. And I've got Joel Komp what's up, dude, what's up.

Speaker 2: 0:58

How are you doing? Doing?

Speaker 1: 0:59

good, so real quick. Guys, there are folks out there that are listening that may or may not know who you are, but this is your chance to kind of tell them a little bit of your background. If you could Take your time, by all means, if you want to kick us off.

Speaker 3: 1:13

Sure, so I'm Clarissa Flint-Garza. I'm the branch manager for Neighborhood Loans in San Antonio, harker Heights and soon to be McAllen. My background actually was a little bit of a shift. I was an executive for a very large privately held company here in the state of Texas. I was the head of compensation and strategy for almost 20 years and that was my lifeline. I'm an analyst by trade.

Speaker 3: 1:37

I was very committed to it, loved the people I worked with, loved everything that I did, and at some point I decided kind of connected with my purpose which I believe is to help people be protectors and providers is there might be another path for me to explore, like this next phase of my career, the next 20 years right before I retire.

Speaker 3: 1:55

And so ultimately I found myself in kind of this real estate space. My spouse has a brokerage and so a lot of bed talk, pillow talk, like we like to say, and ultimately I found myself kind of coming into the lending area. He was like you know, I think you can still live out your purpose, but you're shifting to homeownership, to building wealth, to stability of you know, a house for a family, and so, after much discussion, I was like you know what? I think this could be an amazing next chapter for me, and so, ultimately, I made the shift to come into lending and I love it. All the skills that I've had from corporate America, with problem solving to critical thinking, to solution oriented, to communicating effectively all of those skill sets I now get to apply in a new space and I get to help people become first-time homebuyers, generate wealth for their family, educate all of those wonderful things. And my bucket is full and it's challenging every single day and it's exciting.

Speaker 1: 2:51

There you go. Amen to that. So question for you I myself have a spouse that is also in the industry, and you mentioned pillow talk. My rule is we don't talk about work when we're at home.

Speaker 3: 3:03

If we did not talk about work when we're at home. If we did not talk about work when we were at home, we would never know what's going on in each other's lives. So, he's moving so fast and furious. I'm moving fast and furious, and then we have our kids and before we know it the day's gone. So literally our conversation is 30 minutes at night when we're decompressing and watching something corny on TV.

Speaker 3: 3:25

Yes, yes, there's a little bit of chit chat. We're catching up, and that's when I'm like wait, what happened, you did what? Wait, where are we going, you know? Type conversation. So we don't let it dominate our time. But it is probably the few times that we actually get to have like one-on-one conversation throughout the day, because normally it's a couple texts and that's it, cause we're both in build mode?

Speaker 1: 3:46

No, totally get a shout out. Jeff Garza Redbird real estate the ambassador of the real estate cartel.

Speaker 3: 3:54

There you go. Yeah, yeah, there's.

Speaker 1: 3:58

That would be my connection right there, nicole, tell us about yourself.

Speaker 4: 4:02

Well, actually one thing that I don't think a lot of people know about me is I have had so many jobs since the age of 16. It's kind of crazy. All of it has stemmed from customer service, customer service forward, customer forward, and I've always been a servant to the people in front of me who I'm helping. I got into loans when I was 19, and I actually got recruited by the loan officer from when I was buying a house, because I went to go buy a house. I said this is the one, sign me up. And my agent was like, okay, where's your pre-approval letter? And I was like, huh, what's that? What do you mean? And so he got me connected. They actually said let's close you and then come join our team. So I did that when I was 19.

Speaker 4: 4:44

And it was a lot for a 19-year-old to be a loan officer assistant for a top producing loan officer. I didn't even know what I did. I just blinked and I became a homeowner. So I got out, moved cross country, took any opportunity that came my way, met my husband, worked at Costco during the pandemic, and then I was like you know what? I have really good customer service, like ding, and I know what I can do to actually make a life for myself. So I'm going to get back into loans, reach out to Mark Jones and he goes you know what? Yeah, let's, let's give it a try, cause he was always doing something different, always in your face and social media, and I was like I can get with that. So I was like let's work with Mark Jones.

Speaker 4: 5:21

And so last year I actually had a baby and it was my best year yet. So that's really cool. But now I'm balancing the stresses of being a new mom and then the stresses of 2025 as a loan officer. So I'm a little delusional lately. But you know what Good things come from crazy people. That's what I'm always told. Right, but how old is your baby? 14?

Speaker 3: 5:43

months. I have a nine month old. Oh, I have a um, a late in life surprise blessing I got a baby too hey shut up.

Speaker 4: 5:52

We live in texas so, but yeah, just thriving and surviving is what I call it in 2025 that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 6:01

Yes, it is so, joel, tell us about yourself.

Speaker 1: 6:04

What's up.

Speaker 2: 6:04

Well, I feel like an old dog in this business, so my story kind of starts as a love story. I was up in Austin, texas, I just finished up at UT and I took a job at Dell Computers wearing a headset selling home computers to people on the phone. Ok, I realized that I wasn't cut out for corporate life. I didn't like the fact that I could be a top producer and they told me when I could like take off from work and when I would be late from lunch and it would just wasn't a good fit. So I had met a young lady. She was cute enough to get my attention but she didn't like me enough to stay around. She said I'm going to San Antonio to get in the mortgage business. My mom runs a wholesale shop in town. I was like, hmm well, I'm coming with you, and so I actually left Dell, left Austin, came to San Antonio because I could do sales. The mortgage business is different.

Speaker 1: 6:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:48

You can't just step into the mortgage business and expect to succeed. I went to several different companies, lots of companies that are still in business, some of them that are not. Nobody would hire you with no experience. Luckily, my mother-in-law now, so I ended up marrying the girl that I followed to San.

Speaker 2: 7:04

Antonio Luckily my mother-in-law now. So I ended up marrying the girl that I followed to San Antonio. Luckily, my mother-in-law knew a broker in town, right, mike Goldman, and he hired me to be his receptionist. She literally told him you got to get this kid off my couch because I didn't work for 90 days. You know, I shopped at HEB and I went and got the dry cleaning but I didn't have a job because nobody would hire me. And that was back in 2001. So Mike hired me to be the receptionist. So I started answering the phone, I started setting up files, being an assistant, learning how the business worked and just slowly over time picked up a little bit of this, picked up a little bit of that and kind of got found my own way, decided that I wanted to be an originator. About three years in, started to try to help people make this big decision about what they're going to do for this financial commitment and not owning a home right, trying to make these decisions, playing the part faking it till you make it sort of thing.

Speaker 2: 7:50

I had to grow my hair out because it was too short. I looked like I was 11, you know so trying to talk to these people. But over time, right, you learn a little bit more because somebody took the time to show you the right way of doing things.

Speaker 1: 8:01

Right.

Speaker 2: 8:02

Now, 24 years later, right, I'm still in the business. I'm still helping people find the money that they need to buy the homes they want. The company's a little bit bigger, right. We're not just one little bitty branch, we're all over the country, which is a really, really good thing. And, speaking of why, my wife is literally in the same company with me, she's the chief operating officer. Oh wow. So sales is my thing. We don't typically run across each other. If it's a loan specific question, she just punts me down to the underwriting manager and I go fight my battles there, right. But yeah, it's been a really, really good ride and I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 1: 8:36

I'm glad to be y'all are awesome.

Speaker 2: 8:37

Y'all sound great.

Speaker 1: 8:39

That's awesome. So I know that Clarissa recently got into the business doing very well. Nicole got into the business doing well. For you, being in the business for quite some time, did it take you a little while to get going? In regards to, once you made the transition from let's call it set up to okay, I'm going to be an originator now.

Speaker 2: 9:00

Yeah, yeah, it took me a while. On purpose, by design, I was held back. No-transcript, it was a different. It was like I don't know, mike. I say Mike basically said I don't want to set you up to fail. I want you to learn the foundational structure of Same deal income, assets, credit, debt every single time, but a little bit different every time you do it. So you've got to have a really good foundation understanding about how to structure, how to use what you have and make sure that you can have a pivot or a plan B if and when you need it. You can still get the deal across the finish line.

Speaker 2: 9:37

And so it took about three years for me to sit back and like wait and wait. And then eventually he's like gave me an opportunity. We had a partnership with the real estate office in town and I got to kind of cut my teeth and be protected where I still had a salary, but then I could also originate. And then we finally we hired Courtney to come in and replace me as a processor and then I started to originate full time. But yeah, it took a minute.

Speaker 1: 9:57

Well, one thing that I hats off to you for taking it slow in that process.

Speaker 2: 10:02

Oh, I did not want to do it slow Well hats off to you for being patient in doing that. Yeah, I was 28. So I was like, let's go.

Speaker 1: 10:10

Because the idea behind what you're talking about. We unfortunately don't get to do these in today's market.

Speaker 2: 10:17

I don't think we're going to get to do it again.

Speaker 1: 10:19

I have to agree with you on that, but only time will tell. But what I'm talking about is the idea of hiring a new to the business loan officer and setting them up for success, starting them in, setup, going, processing. Even if it was a three week period in each of those positions ain't nobody got time for that. To be honest, that's pretty cool that you were able to experience that, to experience that, and it also is more than likely a testament to the way that you handle your customers, the way that you are structuring your deals, because it's with the foresight that I know this is being handed off to a processor, unlike many loan officers in the industry. Tell the borrower you're approved, here's the approval letter, don't have documents, and once the docs come in with the contract, they're throwing it over their processor and now it's no longer their responsibility. And for me, I think, as a mentor, um, also an originator, I think it's bass ackwards doing it that way, um. But that's neither here nor there.

Speaker 1: 11:17

Today we're here to talk about what is going on with our market in the masses of loan officers and the struggle that they're going through, and I've got an article that we can read. I can kind of tap into some of it here. Matter of fact, I'll start with a little bit of it. Jc, if you can throw that up on the screen. This is an article that I found that was very recent, a couple of days ago actually. It says economic jitters are stressing out LOs and their clients and it says Jordan Birnbaum has been feeling anxious these last few weeks. On the client's end. They are seeing the news and understanding the situation pretty well. The Nexa Mortgage senior loan officer said on my end it's a stress inducing emotional roller coaster of always worrying when should be locking. I haven't lost any deals from it yet but I have had few files I want to refinance from a year or two ago and now are now we're back in a holding pattern. Now we're back in a holding pattern.

Speaker 1: 12:25

Then it goes on to say Shannon Hoff, senior mortgage advisor of American Pacific Mortgage, said that their branch saw a few brief increase in mortgage applications and rate locks following early April 24th hour rate dip and that happened and then it went away. But now borrowers who didn't take advantage of that have remorse with race in, with rates increasing by approximately 130 basis points, which essentially for the layman is one point three percent Since then. We anticipate that this will have a significant impact on the borrowers who didn't lock in time. Mlos mortgage loan officers are now having tougher conversations with their clients about the shift in affordability and rate expectations. She said Borrowers' behavior now is quite reactive, hoff said.

Speaker 1: 13:16

So I'm going to stop it there for a moment. As of right now, in our market we know that there is a shortage of inventory, and I want to say that lightly because we're seeing on the media that there are so many listings coming into the market. Well, real estate is local. We deal here in San Antonio and surrounding. For us, I would say yes, we are seeing properties hitting the market, but not as many as we need for the type of borrower that we have. Then you also have home sellers that are, we'll call it, locked in their current low rates.

Speaker 2: 13:56

Yeah, call it frozen.

Speaker 1: 13:57

Frozen correct, and in those cases I won't even go into what we're advising on them yet. But we've got a lot of turmoil, we've got the news media, we got to have a presidential change, We've got talks of tariffs and there's folks out there in droves on the fence and for us it has turned into a complicated market. That's what I'll say. So, joel, I'll start with you. What are you seeing from consumers at the moment that is different than what we saw before?

Speaker 2: 14:43

I think a lot of people are making the decision to not buy a home based on a false narrative. I think a lot of people, when they're uncertain, they don't know quite what to do, and the easiest thing to do is not deal with it.

Speaker 1: 14:58

I don't care if it's personal financial health relationship.

Speaker 2: 15:03

If it's difficult and you're not sure what to do, you're indecisive, it's too difficult, I want to set it aside. So I think a lot of consumers or potential homebuyers are making the decision not to deal with it. And it's an easy decision because it's on the news, maybe a relative, maybe the interest rate makes it harder to qualify, and so they're just parking it and they're saying we'll deal with this next year, we'll wait for another year, we'll decide when something else happens. And that's the problem. I think there's an opportunity there and there's a cost. There's a cost of waiting, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 15:31

And you have to like try to inform them and give them information, because facts don't have feelings Right. Like I can tell somebody something but when I'm talking to my friend wife and he's going to remember maybe half of it Correct and it's just not going to hit the way it should. So we just try to have, you know, planning calls, almost you know they're not even like pre-qualification or initial loan consultants. I'm like get in front of this decision to help them make the right decision so they have the right information, so they can make the best decision for them and their family. Like I can't hit somebody on the head and say, boom, buy a house, because that would be great.

Speaker 2: 16:05

Buy a house and choose me and pay me twice. That's right, that would be great. But no, it's like you said it, clarissa, like you want to have a positive impact on your community and you start to see how you can help people with their financial future. And when you take it to that level, you like literally say no, I love you, I care about you. You literally say no, I love you, I care about you.

Speaker 2: 16:27

You should really take a look at this, because the market may be difficult, but there's opportunities in it for you, right, and realtors and negotiations and seller costs and all that stuff. And I'm just saying, like four years, five years, 10 years, down the line, you may not be able to afford this house because it's going to pass you by. Like, this is an opportunity that you have and I don't want you to miss it. So let's really really take a hard look to make sure that you're not capable of doing it, because sometimes they wait and then there should have been something we could have worked on that would have given the opportunity. And then now we're ready no, you're not.

Speaker 1: 16:57

Right, we should have done this before they're ready, but they're not ready.

Speaker 2: 16:59

Yeah, they're not ready.

Speaker 1: 17:01

And you touched on something there that I've mentioned before on this podcast, but I don't think I honed in on it or elaborated on it, and I'm going to hear and get you guys' feedback the idea behind the initial phone call. I've been saying for several years since we saw the influx of loan officers in 2020, that these guys and gals need to learn the high value trust conversation. Where we're sitting there having a conversation that really has little to do with your mortgage right now, it's about what you value, what your goals are, what your current situation is, what your expectations are, so that I can consume all of this to be your best advisor, if that makes sense. Are you guys seeing anything? I mean, I know you have loan officers that you work with. Are you seeing them go through that or are you seeing them skip over that? And also, the ones that do, are they more successful than the ones that don't?

Speaker 3: 18:03

So we have a really big focus that I tell the team all the time is you have to make connections. And until you build a relationship to you, show that you care, till you are actively listening to their circumstances, their situations, what matters to them, you're not going to build that trust, you're not going to build that rapport and that's really important before you can get into all the other educational conversations of why you should be looking to buy now. That's right. Or, if you can't, here's our plan so we can get you on a path to be able to buy in the future.

Speaker 3: 18:34

And so when you have that relationship, one with your realtor because, let's just be honest, that's where, like, majority of all of our leads come through you have to have that relationship, that connection with them so that they know that you care about their success as well, that you know about them personally, that there is an actual human connection, not just a taking feed my family, like let me give you something in return, like let's have an actual, equally yoked, leveraged relationship.

Speaker 3: 18:59

Then that allows you, I think, to then be able to build that trust to where, when they connect you with a client, that you're going to do the same thing, and so I don't get into the business conversation right away. It's always like tell me a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your background, because I think it's important to pull out of what they're telling you. Is there a common threat? Did we both grow up in a military family? Were you a single parent? What are any of those little things to where we can build some type of additional connection there so that we can start that dialogue and then, after that happens, I think you can build from there. But for those who truly make it transactional, they're just going to call someone else and I think as a lender, you have to have a relationship.

Speaker 1: 19:38

Same as a realtor? Yeah, and for you, nicole, I'm going to lean on. You excel at this, and it is being newer to the mortgage business. It's hard to learn loans quickly. Let's be honest. I'm constantly learning, we're always learning. Things are changing. That's the one constant in our industry is change. For you, I think, because of the customer service background you lead with that, with everyone, and it makes up a little bit of the difference in the lack of knowledge that you can easily get the answer to. In any case scenario, tell us about your interactions with your borrowers.

Speaker 4: 20:19

So my interactions with my borrowers and even my agents, it's very, very different with my borrowers and even my agents. It's very, very different. And I say that because I will go home and, like last night, I was making muffin mix with Olivia right next to me listening to Taylor Swift in the kitchen and Mike was hanging up something above the counter and I have this buyer on speaker because it was the only time that they could talk and they're like oh my gosh, it sounds like chaos. Like, can you chat? I was like, oh yeah, this is normal. And they're like, oh my gosh, it sounds like chaos. Like, can you chat? I was like, oh yeah, this is normal. And they're like, oh my gosh, you don't just sit behind a desk. And I was like, oh no, like let's talk business and make muffins. Like we're doing it, you know. And so my husband laughs and he goes are you on the phone with a buyer or is that your friend? And I was like both because they need to trust me, they need to know that I don't work the nine to five, I don't work the Monday through Friday, and while I don't have all the answers to all of their scenarios and all of their financial mishaps that happened during the pandemic, that now they're paying for. That's right.

Speaker 4: 21:12

I, my goal is to still make them feel important, still make them feel good because it financially and you say this all the time, mark real estate is sexy. Loans are not sexy. So to bear your entire financial story to a stranger that you've never met chances are you'll never actually meet them in person but to meet them on Zoom, to meet them after hours and have that face-to-face connection and have them see that we are a real human and we're not just online lenders. They respect that because we see all of their financials, the good, the bad and the ugly. And so for them to feel like, wow, I think I can actually hang out with her, like I feel really comfortable, like a big bear hug. I'm like at least, if we can't do the loan, they're going to refer more people to me, because people are always going to remember how you make them feel Right. So even if I say, hey, dude, you're four 80 credit score, I, I am sorry, but like it's not the cutest.

Speaker 1: 22:10

So, uh, jc, if you want to flash that camera over to Joel so it can go to his the back of his shirt, bang, we'll take a screenshot of that right there. It says people will forget what you've said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.

Speaker 4: 22:26

And warning, I did not see the back of your shirt before this, but it's true, it's true.

Speaker 1: 22:30

So that's impressive reading that fast.

Speaker 2: 22:31

So I'm thinking she's talking and I'm thinking in my head. I'm like ding, ding, ding. Right, I'm vibing with what you're saying, Like there's a human element that you have to take on and it's not for everybody.

Speaker 3: 22:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:44

Some people literally just want a spreadsheet and they'll factor everything out and they're going to choose. You know what? I'm not the lender for you, right, right From the get go, because I can't compete with that. But there's another part your real estate agents, your referral partners, the other people. They think, well, nicole's somebody that I can trust because she's going to have that now, motherly instinct. I don't know if it's your first one, but it comes across, it's like it's a real person you know, sacrificing their family time, which is probably the most important time now, right.

Speaker 2: 23:10

So kudos to you, good job.

Speaker 4: 23:12

Amen, yeah, no, that's. My biggest thing is I just want them to say wow, I can't buy a house right now, but Nicole made me feel good and I know I could call her with anything. So that's always my goal, because I don't want to. I don't want to be. You know, when I get an email saying what's your rate for today, I say I'm not your lender, sorry, this is not how we, this is not how we play the game, because all of this other stuff that I could talk forever.

Speaker 1: 23:35

Damn you. You sound like you've been trained pretty well. That's pretty good, nicole. Um, I'm impressed. So there's another topic. Uh, there's plenty of topics, but there's one that just came to mind right now because you triggered it a moment ago, and it has a lot to do with the idea of and I'm not even going to say just newer to the business loan officers.

Speaker 1: 23:56

Loan officers in general have, um, a bad habit by the masses of unknowingly or knowingly lying to their borrowers. And I'll give you an example. I got a phone call last night from a borrower around nine o'clock. I was already working, so picked it up, got him on speakerphone and we started rapping about the idea of something he was told by another lender, about the idea of something he was told by another lender, and he researched it on chat, gpt, different things, but was reading it completely out of context. The idea was he wanted to assume his mother's mortgage, which is VA loan, had a very low rate currently at the time and use the gift of equity to purchase a new home. And I was going well, okay, so you're going to assume that mortgage, but where is the money the gift of equity going to be taken out to be applied to the new loan and he said no, that's not how this works. It is the idea of, I assume, my mom's mortgage. There's equity sitting in it. I can use that equity. And I said you absolutely can, but you'd have to utilize an instrument, a financial instrument, to pull the cash out. So the assumption yes, that allows you to keep this lower rate, but it doesn't give you any tangible cash to use for anything other than the fact that you have equity, which is not a bad thing.

Speaker 1: 25:25

So going into chat GPT with him, I was like dude, you got a moment to just jump on a zoom call. I'm already plugged in. We jumped on, I pulled in chat GPT and he shows his screen and I said here's the difference. Just like Google, it all depends on what and how you're asking the question. It all depends on what and how you're asking the question. So I pulled mine up and asked it can you utilize the equity from another home as a down payment of another home without pulling the cash out? And immediately no, you can't. As a matter of fact, I probably have it here. Let's see here Rendering request. What is this? No, I'm going to find it. Let's see here. Dispute gift work expectations. Oh goodness.

Speaker 4: 26:16

Is it that one that says gift of?

Speaker 1: 26:17

equity? Yes, right here. Boom. Okay, can you JC you sharing screen? Can you use a gift of equity for another home you own for down payment on the purchase of another home without pulling the equity out of the home that you're already? Immediately? No Gives. The literal same reasons as to what I said to him before we jumped on the call, because he was totally skeptical of the things that I was telling him because he had done the research and heard it from another loan.

Speaker 2: 26:45

You're being difficult, Mark.

Speaker 1: 26:46

There you go. So after that conversation, immediately the gentle and I told him hey, I'm pretty blunt and honest person. I'm not here to be a yes man. I mean, I consider myself an expert when it comes to mortgages and I'm going to tell you the truth. Whether you end up using me or not, you're going to at least have the right information. And his response was you know what? I respect that and I said, hey, I appreciate it. There's very few that don't in today's market. I've learned that being honest with these people, telling them the truth and bluntly, with explanation of course, is a better route than stroking their ego or trying to let's call it recruit them into your pipeline, only to let them down because what you agreed upon is not what actually can happen. Are you guys seeing that in your market, in your pool of realtors, I'm sure you get the call for turndowns of other realtors that you're working with that happen to work with another lender and the deal is going south, et cetera. Have you guys experienced that lately?

Speaker 4: 27:59

I just got a call from a realtor who said that their buyer was approved using a VA loan with a lender and then it was only for like 150, but then they're like no, we want to have more. Like how do we increase our approval amount? Like let's just go to a different lender. And I'm like that's, that's an interesting mindset. But sure enough they did so they got 200,000, but now that lender's not calling them, didn't explain how they increased. It Didn't explain anything.

Speaker 4: 28:27

And this agent calls me and she goes Nicole, how how did I go from 150 to 200? Nobody's answering. I can't get an approval letter. We want to make an offer. And I was like this sounds terrible. Like your buyers, do your buyers know what their monthly payment is Like? Do they know what they're signing up for? Do they know? It's like do they know? And she's like, no, they don't. And I was like well, let me talk with them. I don't want to take a look at credit. Like I just want to hold their hand because these poor people are being put through the ringer, because lenders are we're. We're in a very trying time. I don't want to say we're desperate those pre-approval letters and worry about the problems later, because now they got you by the hook and you're under contract and now you got to figure it out Like you're at the mercy of the lender and that's just not. That doesn't feel good. And so I'm like man, these poor people utilizing a VA loan, no wonder why people don't want to buy a home.

Speaker 3: 29:22

because they don't know, because nobody's telling them Well, and I think beyond that, you've got their hopes up right. And so there's a whole emotional aspect there and lack of education, lack of trust. But I also think shame on us for our realtor affiliate, because how many hours did they spend away from their child making muffins, or whatever the case may be, out showing properties, thinking that they have someone who's pre-approved for 200 K and lo and behold, they're not. I mean, I get these questions all the time. I'm like there's no way they're at X amount. Well, so-and-so said this, I'm like we're all following the same guidelines, we're all looking at the same debt to income requirements, like everything's the same.

Speaker 4: 30:02

So I don't know what what they did, but I'm telling you on my end, this is where we're at in addition, I sometimes, sometimes my buyers are approved for 350 000, but where they want to be budget wise is 200 000. So I say your budget is 200 000 and then the agent goes well, can we get them to 250? Have you had this conversation with your buyer? They want it, they are payment specific. This is where we need to be. There's no magic wand. Like if I had it shoot, I'd be the number one lender in town, but I don't Like. This is where they need to be, so we need to listen.

Speaker 2: 30:33

Yeah for sure, yeah, yeah. So I see lots of conditional qualification letters. Yeah, and they are junk. And they are junk. You know they are congratulations. Literally within five minutes of you hitting submit on your application, here comes a conditional approval letter and it says congratulations, based on your soft pull credit report and your verbal income and assets, you are pre-approved for a home loan up to $350,000.

Speaker 2: 31:00

I'm going how do you pre-approve somebody based on no documentation and a credit report that you can't actually lend on? That's right. Right, but that's the speed, that's the push button mortgage. You know who did it to us a few years ago. They said it should be super easy to get a home loan. You put your thumb on your phone and you get approved. That's right.

Speaker 2: 31:18

You're asking the right questions up front. You're asking the right questions up front. So are you and me. Questions up front. So are you and me. And we're being difficult, right? We're trying to basically field underwrite this file. That's right. Make sure that there are zero blind spots in this deal. It is bulletproof. Like this is not something that somebody just decided today they want to buy a house. This is somebody we've been talking to for a few months and we've already got them dialed in, we have them ready to go, and the competitor is giving the narrative that they're better than us because their rate's lower, they're faster than us. Look how fast and quick and efficient they did it. They must be better than some proven expert, and so it's just it's difficult, it's exhausting, but we'll get through it.

Speaker 1: 31:56

It's exhausting. That's a good way to articulate that. It's exhausting for us that are doing the right things in order to have the fiduciary responsibility of that buyer in mind. I could care less about the seller. I could care less about the realtors when I'm talking to the buyer, because their goals are, more times than not, different than the buyers. It's our job to make the connection between the buyer's goals and the realtor's efforts essentially the next topic. Matter of fact, let me go back to this article real quick and we'll pull some stuff out of here, because I've got plenty more to talk about, but I don't want to get ahead of myself. So, jc, if you can throw that back up.

Speaker 1: 32:41

So finishing this with so much volatility in rates, we're seeing a mix of urgency and hesitation. When rates dip even slightly, we see a rush to borrowers trying to lock quickly, especially refinances or those who have been on the fence. On the flip side, when rates jump, some buyers pause, hoping for better timing or more clarity on where the market is headed. Los said the economic volatility has shaken borrowers' confidence. Several said clients are more reactive and quicker to shop rate. Borrowers strap for cash and I love this piece of the article simply because no one is talking about this. Phil Cisneros Jr, southeast Division President of Nation One Mortgage Corp, said that he's witnessing more consumer anxiety around rate fluctuations and job insecurity. I'm seeing more nervousness about what is coming in the future, even in regards to employment, said Cisneros, who regularly works with lower income clients. If a client is working overtime to make their mortgage payment, maybe those overtime shifts aren't going to be available in the conversation on the consumer level, but are now coming up because when the client is seeing, sees or hears a recession, they may think, well, maybe my company is going to be in trouble, maybe their employer isn't going to be doing great with the economic news.

Speaker 1: 34:21

Cisneros says that rates above 7% are turnoff for buyers, even if they could still afford the payment. I've noticed, uh, I've noticed is that, uh, when the interest rates break above 7%, it's just changes the psychology, uh, a little bit, so they just assume the worst. And so, a lot of times, feedback and direct education and breakdown uh, breaking down the client specific scenario does get a little bit more uh, comfortable. He said. As borrowers trying to make numbers work, they're seeking out offers like two one, buy downs, but sellers are also willing to compromise with this concession. We're seeing sellers are more open-minded to negotiating about rates. Because of rates, he said the upside is that the homeowner who's selling doesn't want to lose the buyer. I want to stop there.

Speaker 1: 35:14

So two things that were mentioned that we don't really think about, which is the buyer that is working the overtime? They're seeing the news thinking about the recession. Oh shit, is my job going to stop giving me the overtime that is currently needed to continue going? Because if I didn't have that overtime, well, I'd be behind. Then you have the other topic of sellers are becoming a lot more adjusted to today's market and we're not seeing the adjustments in the price tag. We're seeing it in the concession side of things. Would you guys agree with and let's start with the income piece. I personally have seen more than ever utilizing overtime to qualify a borrower, to get them over that hump. How are you guys seeing that in your day-to-day? Utilizing overtime to qualify a borrower, to get them over that hump? How are you guys seeing that in your day-to-day? And, in addition, is it tough in many case scenarios to calculate it accurately as opposed to a newer to the business loan officer giving them overtime and then, unfortunately, we can't use it the way you think we can use it.

Speaker 2: 36:24

How do you calculate the overtime? Oh, I just went with what they told me. That doesn't work.

Speaker 1: 36:29

They said they work a lot.

Speaker 2: 36:30

Yeah, or they're going to work a lot.

Speaker 1: 36:32

There you go.

Speaker 2: 36:33

Yeah, I'll talk about it. Overtime's a hard part right this beginning of the year because it's so new it's only like three and a half months into the year. A lot of people who get overtime typically in longer days or warmer weather to work, and so overtime is a challenge, sometimes even to be able to use, even though you have a history of earning it.

Speaker 1: 36:51

That's exactly right.

Speaker 2: 37:04

And can you expand on that just a moment, because there's a lot of folks that are experienced, that totally understand what you're saying right now. But then there's a massive group that are going well bonus tips by the day, by the job I don't care by the hour sometimes. So anytime you have a fluctuating income, you typically got to take an average right. The general rule is you got to have two years. Sometimes you can do it shorter if they've been earning it a little bit less, but you always got to have at least a year. When you're looking at somebody who's earned it, you really want a long time because it's not a guaranteed income, it's something that fluctuates. So at the beginning of the year there's fewer paychecks to be able to isolate. You're looking at year-to-date base pay. You're looking at year-to-date commissions and if the commission or the overtime or the bonus is less than what they earned last year, you're going to use the lower amount this year. Even when you know that they're going to make the money later this year, you can't prove it, so your loan file doesn't have the structure in it and so if it's a lot less meaning I made a thousand dollars a month last time in overtime. Now I'm making $200 in overtime because we need the summer times. When I get on my work and we do we do HVAC like air conditioning, and nobody's running their air conditioner in the winter, they're running it full nonstop. In the summer, they're banking out the overtime. If I was closing in October, I would have a lot more overtime and we'd be totally fine, but no, you're closing in like March or February. Now you're in trouble because I can't get it.

Speaker 2: 38:21

And the lender, the loan officer, who doesn't ask about the overtime how much did you earn last year? How much did you earn year to date? Borrowers don't necessarily know, right. They go I'm not sure, right. Ask them how much was your W-2 last year? Give me W-2. How much did you get paid by the hour? Calculate the base pay. Did you get a pay increase last year? Yes, I did. When? What month? And you can kind of like hone in Back into it. Give me the pay stub from your pay comm or your ADP from 2024 and 2023 and the most recent one. Now I really important, but those are costly, yes, you know. So your branch or your company may not allow you to order those up front. So you got to be able to be resourceful and ask people the right information, and don't just stop with how much money do you make?

Speaker 1: 39:02

Absolutely, and you articulated that wonderfully. Simply, there is something that I see quite often, and it goes to the beginning of the year concept of well, I'm doing a two-year average. Well, I mean, almost ever since COVID we've had to look at year to date with everything to do this average. And if that is not lining up, whether your hourly pay and wages or the overtime that we're calculating, then we have to use what we have in front of us, Right? Or we've got to have a damn good reason as to why it's not lining up, regardless of when it is in the year. But we've only been in three months, four months, Okay. Well, what's been happening in the last few months?

Speaker 2: 39:46

I would like to add the only reason I know that is because I've messed up on that before. Right, how do you learn and know so much? I have messed up a bunch along the way and try not to.

Speaker 2: 39:56

you know, if it's a government loan, you're not going to be able to make any exceptions. If it's a conventional file, there's a little bit of lead way for the lender, but ultimately, when you get brought in front of mortgage court, that's right. Are you going to be able to defend yourself? Right, we only want to do focused on what you did last week or last month. That's going to be a problem.

Speaker 3: 40:16

Yeah, go for it. I was going to say. I think that's why it's important as lenders that we understand the compensation for our clients. So, with my background being the head of compensation and designing compensation programs, I'm very good at deciphering paychecks and what are your pay programs? Cause I designed them for 20 years for over 3000 different jobs. So, yeah, so like I nerd out on that stuff. So I'm like, oh, you have all this breakout of all these different pay differentials and this and that.

Speaker 3: 40:40

And it's important that we actually do like the analysis and that we're being conservative, don't overstate, just because that's what the buyer wants, because ultimately we find ourselves in a position to where we have to bring bad news and I think probably every lender could honestly say we probably have all messed up on a calculation once or twice. That has gotten us into a position to where ultimately, we had to shift directions for our client, and so the more that we can ask all those questions do the analytics up front, which does mean that we're not churning around approval in five minutes. It's client-based. What is your job If you're salaried and I'm just qualifying you on salary easy breezy all day, self-employed, got tons of differential pay, tons of overtime, different factors. It's going to take a little bit more and I think that's us knowing our craft and truly setting those expectations and doing the work up front so that we can have a good experience for our borrower.

Speaker 1: 41:33

That's right. Both of you mentioned something that was not on here, but I'm adding it to it and we'll just quickly glaze over this. But the idea of, and on to the topic of why loan officers are struggling in today's market, I have to say one of the responses should be they haven't taken enough lumps yet, or they haven't taken any lumps yet, and what I mean by that is we've all had, uh, our butts bit by something at some point in time, and it is typically not until then that you don't really learn. It doesn't stick Absolutely, if that makes sense. You want to elaborate on that?

Speaker 4: 42:15

Oh, I mean, you know, I, I, I have been burned quite a few times. Thankfully, it's only I'm blessed because I have such a great team that protects me, that I have the conversations upfront Like hey guys, we could give this a shot, but give me a week to get into underwriting and then we'll have to pivot. So we need a plan A, we need a plan B and we need a plan C. Like you're risky, don't you dare go to your bank because they're going to piss you off, they're going to make you feel discouraged. I was like but I got you, but we've got a plan A, we've got a plan B and we got a plan C. Goodness, we have that third party financing addendum.

Speaker 4: 42:53

But you need to be aware that this is not a walk in the park, that's right. It's like you need to be aware. And so bad news, I I have a saying bad news is only bad news depending on when you share it. Otherwise it's just news. You know you share it right away. And it's news because there have been plenty of times where I have practiced avoidance. And let me tell you, the biggest hurdle that I've learned as a loan officer is start your day with the bad news, Get the bad news off your plate. So that way you can just truck it forward and then put on your big girl pants and move on. That's right.

Speaker 1: 43:29

That's right and the idea behind taking those lumps and setting proper expectations. It's not a simple task. You don't know, especially in today's market, how that borrower is going to receive that information. They could see it or hear it and go. They might be full of it. Let me go talk to somebody else. That, then, is running the risk of getting the right answer or some fluff. That, then, is running the risk of getting the right answer or some fluff, and the fluff leaves them down the road of OK, I'm now denied after going under contract. I'm not going to go back to the previous person that told me the truth up front, because I'm either too proud or too embarrassed to do so.

Speaker 2: 44:08

Sometimes they do.

Speaker 1: 44:09

Sometimes they do. You are correct.

Speaker 2: 44:10

Those are the best phone calls.

Speaker 1: 44:12

Absolutely. I'm too busy, I'm kidding. No, no, no. But the idea is we're hoping that by giving this information, this insight to their situation, that is a problem that they do not know or aren't aware of up front. Number one we have experience. It's bit us before. That's why we're telling you now. Number one we have experience, it's bit us before. That's why we're telling you now. We're hoping that they don't get the adverse or go with the adverse, which is I want to go get a second opinion, and the second opinion is somebody less qualified to give that opinion. So that's that. On to another topic here the idea of loan officers struggling because they are not keeping up. I'll call it keeping up with the Joneses. But the idea of keeping up with technology, keeping up with the systems, keeping up with even having a system for themselves. What are you guys' thoughts on that? Clarissa, do you have a system that you utilize? Do you have technology that you leverage within your process, et cetera.

Speaker 3: 45:23

I do, and I will say I was one of these stubborn ones. When I first came in I was like I'm an Excel queen, I'm going to track everything in Excel. I don't need to learn other technology and tools. I've got this yeah, I didn't have it. Learn other, you know technology and tools. I've got this yeah, I didn't have it. And so ultimately, I had to embrace, like our different CRMs and other tools that luckily, my company provided and I had great mentors who were like so now are we getting on board? You know, because I was a little stubborn, I was like, yeah, I'm on board now.

Speaker 3: 45:50

And if I go back and I analyze, like man, I had some really great leads but because I didn't follow the process and the system that was in front of me, how many of those did I miss? How many of those did I lose? Like, yes, they still closed, but they didn't close with me. That didn't equate to food on my family's table or deepening a relationship with a partner, a referral partner, and so I really had to step back and say, okay, you know what, there are powers at BE and people who have experience and are more knowledgeable than I am. And if you just follow the process and set aside what are your activities you're doing every day.

Speaker 3: 46:27

I love the starting with the bad news first. I mean we have to spend every single day giving updates right To our buyers, to our listing agents, to the buyers agents, to everybody, to keep everyone looped in on the process. But the same thing goes through with following up on anyone who's pre-approved checking in. Hey, on Monday did you go house hunting? This weekend, any luck, you know? Oh, did you see such and such house? Blah, blah, blah. Whatever it's that relationship, it's those conversations.

Speaker 3: 46:59

And until I got really structured on building my time to allocate for those activities and to make sure I was following through and I was tracking them and I was scheduling those follow-ups so that I didn't lose people throughout the process. Because, let's be honest, sometimes the day gets away from you and it can be because all of a sudden you got really busy and it was great, or you had to deal with a fire all day and before you know it your entire day is gone because you were saving one deal but you missed five other follow-up phone calls that maybe then could have been two more buyers down the road. And so being able to follow those processes, to follow the tools, to use the systems in front of you. I think is so, so important if you want to be successful. You can only keep so much in your head, that's right, and you can only write so much down on a sheet of paper and have like 5 million sheets of paper and then you know you lose track of someone.

Speaker 1: 47:40

Yeah, that used to be me. Actually, I was an advocate of your brain isn't for remembering, it's for solving problems. So write it down, and I had three of those every day and I just constantly have notes.

Speaker 3: 47:51

I'm a post-it girl, I love post-its and so, even though I have everything in my CRM, I still my brain will trigger stuff and I'm writing down post-its and I'm like, all right, hold on, is it in my CRM? Yes, is it printed on my activities to do today?

Speaker 2: 48:05

Yes.

Speaker 1: 48:09

Okay, I can throw my post-it away, like I don't need to rely on my brain. Now you're finding that a little bit of redundancy is not a bad thing. In that instance, we write it down. We write it down. End of the day, every day I'm going to go and push this over to my CRM system. Yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 3: 48:21

And I had to develop a process I mean on the weekends or in the evenings like how do I make sure that, when I got that lead and, yes, I reached out and talked to that buyer that they don't get lost and not get in my CRM? And so I had established my process that works for me and after I figured that out, game on.

Speaker 1: 48:36

Yeah, how about you, joel?

Speaker 2: 48:38

Yeah for sure you need to embrace technology Like I literally know like if you don't get with it, you will be out of business sooner than you think. If you don't get with it, your competitors are already doing it. So, technology, I can go down and geek down and like get all nerded out on it, but you know a point of sale that can take a very smooth application and ask the borrower for the documents that they need and then put it into the system for you to review and like that's a really, really like high end technology. Many originators are old school. I would love to be an old school originator that just had somebody set me three or four appointments during the day and they would come in and we would have a nice consultation. There would be people over here writing everything down for me and getting all the notes for it like a doctor. Right, you're here for an FHA loan.

Speaker 2: 49:19

Well, let me see here. Your credit score is this, that's your blood pressure. You know like looks like. Your blood type is this and this is where you work and live. That would be amazing, but our schedules are too busy like that. How many face-to In the last 10 years? Like three? Yeah, yeah, not very many. I mean, it's all electronic, it's some Zoom, it's some phone, it's literally maybe by text, and I never even know what they look like. Sometimes I'll jump in the file and look at their ID and be like, oh, that's what John looks like.

Speaker 2: 49:43

Right, you know because I just never actually get to see them right, because we're just so moving and moving and so you need CRM, you know a good loan operation software, and then just make sure that you're. You mentioned Excel spreadsheets. They're not the devil, but they are kind of static.

Speaker 1: 50:00

Yes, unless you are there, you go.

Speaker 3: 50:04

It's great for exporting and analyzing information, not tracking.

Speaker 2: 50:08

Yeah, you got to be able to make sure you're hitting your metrics. And that's not old school, that's new tech If you're a professional and you want to get better at something, you better start logging your reps. If you just do this for fun and it's just like a hobby for you, then go old school and get out of the way, because we're going to take over.

Speaker 1: 50:24

That's exactly right, I love that. And then the idea of not just plugging into one tech tool, one tech, this. Learn how to stack them and leverage them in what your process is like you're talking about Technically. You can stay with your old Excel stuff and then you can use Zapier to grab that information and throw it into your CRM system. People are going huh, You're behind.

Speaker 3: 50:49

Yeah, sorry, but I think it goes back to you have to be a constant student, one of our business, right, because things are changing all the time, but two just of what tools are out there. Because I want to be so busy that if I don't have a tool in place or the right support around me, there's no way, like I want the fire hydrant flowing so fast that there's no way I can come up, you know for air so fast that there's no way I can come up, you know, for air. And if I do think, like if you build the right foundation, you're speaking life into that being the case, and so slowly, as stubborn as I was, because that is a little bit of a trait that I have, which is good, because I'll fight for your deal, like and find a way, because I do not like no, I'm like, how can we get this done?

Speaker 3: 51:32

But when I embrace the technology and the tools that were there, I saw a shift. And then when business started flowing, I was like, oh, thank goodness that I started, like finally adapting and building to this foundation because it's so necessary.

Speaker 1: 51:44

Right.

Speaker 3: 51:44

But it doesn't mean that what I have now is what I'm going to need in a year.

Speaker 2: 51:48

Yeah, you touched on something that you fight for deals right, and you're with every deal, but there can only be so much of you in every transaction. So if you're doing one or two probably can be all of you you start doing four or five. It's not the best. You start stacking seven, eight, nine, 10. I mean, back in the day, we'll never get there, but we're closing 40, 50 deals a month.

Speaker 2: 52:07

So you have to have technology that puts a version of you still with the file, so it looks and feels like you, even though you're not necessarily involved with it every single time.

Speaker 2: 52:18

I'm waiting for somebody to license the first like AI bot that can actually take an application, you know, on a computer that can pull credit and everything Like. There's going to be one that does it. So it's coming. Technology is coming and the people who know how to utilize it are the people who are going to thrive, and the people that kind of are like whoa, what's that? I was like bye, that's right.

Speaker 1: 52:40

Yeah, that's right. So you held something up there. Can you tell us about this? What? What do you got there?

Speaker 2: 52:44

oh, this is just a sales activity tracker, right, and so I have been, uh, not as good of an originator as I used to be, right? Um, back in 2015, I started, uh, being coached, you know, one on one, and trying to like really make this something special. Because I was about a million a month, right, which is pretty good, but I was like, dang, if I can do you know, four or five deals a month, I wonder if I can do more. But you're going to need help, right. So I hired an assistant and started to get those systems put in place to where you had a very before you're a client. Started to get those systems put in place to where you had a very before you're a client, during you're a client, after you're a client, and how that narrative works. The gold experience Like what would it feel? Like the comp factor, how people remember, how you made them feel.

Speaker 2: 53:24

Well, it's like nobody remembers anything about anything, but they remember how they felt about it. So when they think about getting another home loan or they think about referring a family or friend, they go, oh yeah, joel, he's the guy that can do it. And so I wanted that feeling and it's fun, right to have people choose you. Right. Forget about the money. The money comes when you start helping people. But COVID happened. Everybody was great. That's partially the problem, I think, with some of the new originators.

Speaker 2: 53:50

Literally was going to say the same thing Anybody who closed loans in 2020, 2021, 2022 start getting bad. That had nothing to do with you.

Speaker 3: 53:58

Amen, amen, you were just a breathing lender, that's right.

Speaker 2: 54:02

That's right, with a solid team behind you, yeah absolutely yeah, I mean get them in, get them out. I mean they're refis, so they obviously paid their mortgage before and they qualified before. So I mean can't be that bad, nope. And if it didn't work, you know there was another one On to the next.

Speaker 1: 54:15

That's right.

Speaker 2: 54:15

You could just sit down and be like where's my ATM? Right, but I got off some of the core, like systems and like values and some of the things that I knew were good for me. You know, I just got out of shape Even though I was working hard. I wasn't healthy and 22 came a little bit rougher 23, 24.

Speaker 2: 54:34

It's getting harder and harder and technology is coming and the rates are important and everybody is like would have better deals than me and I'm losing them because I'm not fast enough or I'm not good enough, or at least that's the narrative, and I had to get out of my head and be like that's a bunch of malarkey. You know, I'm built for this and so, jc, can you look up malarkey?

Speaker 1: 54:52

I'm kidding.

Speaker 2: 54:55

No, you're right. So I had to go back to the basics and be like you need to get structured right. You need to start time blocking your day. You need to make sure that you're holding yourself accountable and making the right talk to's every Monday and you're following up with the listing agents and you're working your database and you're doing your pre-approvals. And these are non-negotiables because we can get in the day day. I wear different hats for the company, right? I'm an originator, I'm a ranch manager, I'm a president, like there's a lot of things that are being pulled in different parts. But at some point you'd be like I'll be, like I'm really important and I need to make sure that I do what I need to do so I'm a better resource for my referral partners, for my buyers, and so I've got my spreadsheet and it's themed out through to be and I'm hitting all those metrics. It's just a matter of time right before it takes off.

Speaker 1: 55:39

What you just said speaks volumes and I don't believe that people take it as literally as you're saying it. I talk about it often, other top producers talk about it often and we bring up the idea of going back to the basics, but there's a lot of folks that don't even understand what the basics are. You bring up this sheet here, your activity tracker, your your critical success factors, your needle moving activity tracker, and they are a bunch of different basic items that we do, or activities that we do as originators, that we do as originators, that you should be able to, when asked hey, clarissa, how do you get business Be able to say I do this, many of these, this many of these, this many of these.

Speaker 3: 56:24

Contact 40 realtors a week and by the end of this week.

Speaker 1: 56:28

I tally it up and I go okay, I need to adjust this column, that column, that column.

Speaker 2: 56:33

Those are. Go for it. It's a mirror, right? I can lie to myself very easily. I can talk myself into it. I can make an excuse. Well, last week was Fiesta Week and that didn't happen and all the realtors are downtown so they're not calling me and the builder has this. You know, I didn't have time for that and somebody had to go pick up. Somebody Like I can make a bunch of excuses and talk myself into why my output isn't where it needs to be, right, you know. But I know that I'm built for something better, like I know it. And so I needed to get back to what I'm looking at. And it's a mirror. It literally is. This is your results of your effort, joel, that's right. How much did you actually like put in? That's right. And so did you close any deals last month?

Speaker 1: 57:14

that's why you're not closing any business and and what's funny is is, after this podcast, I've got back-to-back one-on-ones with my loan officers, and that's what we're going to talk about very cool. They're the idea behind. We're going to go over these basic activities to start with your production and work backwards to see what you did or didn't do. Right, that is creating the current outcome of your situation.

Speaker 2: 57:39

Yeah, technology has nothing to do with this. Nothing, you know. The technology makes it easier and you can do more.

Speaker 1: 57:45

Yes, sir.

Speaker 2: 57:45

But without the foundation you don't really have anything to build off of. So you've got to be good at this first.

Speaker 1: 57:51

What do they say? Half the battle is showing up or 80 percent, whatever your number is, but do the things Last time I checked.

Speaker 2: 57:57

This is a relationship business. Yes, sir, and people do business with people that they like. No interest yeah, and so it's not really that difficult, hopefully. If they know you, they like you, yeah. If they don't like you, eh, fuck them, yeah.

Speaker 4: 58:11

So going back to the basics, one thing that's a better F word.

Speaker 4: 58:13

Going back to the basics, one thing that I'm noticing and we could just start my one-on-one now but the one thing that has been a big pivot in thinking I did have a lot of life changes last year. I had a baby that's kind of huge and then I sold a house and then I bought a house and then the holidays, so I saw a lot of my business after having a great year it was the best year I've ever had in my entire life and then it dipped off and I was calling Mark and talking about being stubborn. You're going to get a kick out of this. I always called Mark and I'm like I have no deals. What am I doing? I'm doing all the things, like you know, if I'm looking back, like last year, I was pregnant and I had more deals than now and I'm actually putting in the work, and the only thing Mark would say to me is Nicole, get your butt to the office. And I was like no, no, I got this beautiful house, I got an office for me to work out of. I can do this. And every day I would tell him and his only response is Nicole, come to the office. And I was like no, I can do it. Everybody is and I was like no, I can do it, like everybody is successful.

Speaker 4: 59:13

But I think one thing that really fell off during COVID and I think a lot more people if you're listening to this and you're in sales and you're not producing, get your butt to the office, just try it. Try it for once, because when you're wearing so many different hats, when I hear my baby cry across the house, what do I do? My heart sinks. I want to stop what I'm doing and I want to hold my baby. I don't want anything to do with work, but my husband's got it, she's taken care of, she's good.

Speaker 4: 59:39

I don't need to listen for the laundry. I don't need to wait for Amazon to be there. I don't need to hear the dogs. I need to focus on work. I need to wear my work hat because I got food to put on the table, I got bills to pay and this is where it gets done and from here this is a starting point. So that's been the biggest pivot is get your butt out of your house and into the office, because most of the time, if somebody who is leading you is saying that, they may have a point, and it's not the worst thing in the world to come to the office and work and collaborate with fellow people who are also struggling and learning from them. So that's been a really great thing. You know that has changed everything too Call theme days, but also just coming to the office it's so basic but so important.

Speaker 2: 1:00:20

There's a culture, 1000%. You can say steel sharpens steel.

Speaker 1: 1:00:24

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:00:24

But all of our problems can we can learn off of each other, and you never know. When somebody is having a conversation that could be like oh wow, I just recently had that.

Speaker 1: 1:00:33

And this is what.

Speaker 2: 1:00:34

I found out. It could probably help you too, right? Or like you learn something that could help yourself. So, yeah, the office. Now nobody needs a home loan in the office, so you can't be walking around, so don't spend all your time there. But yeah, for sure, you need to show up.

Speaker 1: 1:00:47

That's right, and you may remember this. They, they may not but the idea of, but the idea of. I lost my thought, son of a gun. I'm going to remember something. It'll come back.

Speaker 2: 1:01:02

I am old, so you might have to say it twice.

Speaker 1: 1:01:03

Well, shoot. What was the idea?

Speaker 2: 1:01:06

People in the office. Oh, there, it is Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:01:09

So do you remember when let's call it? I don't know, maybe eight years ago, when production teams were very like this? We're not going to tell our secrets.

Speaker 2: 1:01:23

That's that. Some companies are like that.

Speaker 1: 1:01:25

Still, I don't see much of it. Only because of social media, only because of podcasts like this, where we're doing all different companies here but we're collaborating on ideas. It's OK to share your best practices. I've always been the type to share why? Because somebody once told me, even if you tell them your secrets, they're too lazy to do it. Anyway, most are only going to take a little bit of that, similar to, let's say, you go to a motivational, inspirational summit or a masterminds. You're going to get pumped up for that week that you're there. You maybe come back and set your new stuff that you learned and then you fall off. Yeah, I think it's like I don't know. 5% of the people actually do what they just learned at a seminar.

Speaker 2: 1:02:14

Oh for sure, and move forward. Yeah, like 80% will sign up. You know another 10% was going to quit after that. Maybe 3% will do it for a couple of months, but only like five or 7% will actually keep it and only 1% is actually going to be successful.

Speaker 1: 1:02:25

But hey, they got those endorphins, they got that motivation, they feel good for that week.

Speaker 2: 1:02:32

Yeah, I think it has to do with the company or the culture, right? So we've been a part of a lot of different banks throughout the years. You know six or seven different banks. So GFS is just a DBA, right? So always been a bank. But seeing different corporate environments, yeah, it depends on the company you work for. There are a lot of people still that are like no, I don't want to teach you or tell you, because then you're going to become more valuable than me. I saw it more in operations, you know, not so much in sales, but I don't want you to teach you or show you, because then you're going to outproduce me and then I won't be the big dog in the office. And so, yeah, there for sure was not a lot of that sharing. But through technology and through the Internet and, like you mentioned, all of this, free information is being passed out. But you're right, most people aren't going to do it because it's hard. That's right. If it was easy, even losers would do it.

Speaker 1: 1:03:14

I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:03:16

It definitely is not easy.

Speaker 1: 1:03:17

That's right. Well, I've got one more topic, and it is one that we have not even scratched the surface on in this. I don't know what we've been talking for about an hour. We haven't even talked about it and not even touched on it. One of the biggest parts as to why loan officers in today's market are struggling has a lot to do with the builder side of things. Let's be honest Builders are winning at the moment.

Speaker 2: 1:03:50

How do you guys feel about that. Who wants to kick that one off? I think it's good for them. I mean, they've got the product, like. They have the asset right. There's a lack of inventory, right. Or there are certain areas that don't have homes, and so the builder right, they've got the brand new home. We've always competed against the builders, right. So builders have always been. Maybe 10% of our business would leak off to a builder. You can't stop it, right. But now the builder has the payment, yes, and the builder has the out-of-pocket cost, so the builder can basically solve all of the problems.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

You're looking for that cracked out 3.5% interest rate. I got you. You're looking to get the house or just your down payment? I got you. You're looking for custom windows and custom paint and this kind of flooring exactly what you want. Like you don't like the color of the bedroom, I got you, right. So they're eliminating all of the heismans that are being given to all the homeowners and they're saying like, whatever's holding you back, come to me and I'll fix your pain. So I don't like blame them for doing it. A lot of people get mad like it's got to be illegal. There ain't no way. They're staring at them. I was like they're saying here's your choice Use whatever lender you want and get their financing, but you don't get all the other things that come along with this negotiation, because it's a transaction Use my lender and you can have everything.

Speaker 1: 1:05:02

And you're probably going to be surprised at my response. I appreciate your outlook on that. I feel the same way. Why? Because it's just another piece to what we do that makes it a little bit more difficult to thin the herd, and what I mean by that is it is a necessary evil. If we want to continue to educate, to put people in a better position to win as a family, as an individual, we have to have those builder outlets. If not, there's no inventory at all. That being the case, it's important for us, as the experts, to have the conversation not only with the buyers but also the realtors, to be able to make sure that they are having the conversation of how long do you plan on staying in this home? What is your outlook on the next five years? Are you planning on selling? Are you planning on leaving the state, et cetera, and then educating them so that they can be equipped to make that decision, to outweigh this payment versus that potential equity downfall position in the near future? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3: 1:06:10

Well, with someone who just sent a pre-approval right before I came in here, for someone who's buying with new construction and I'm hoping they stay with their outside lender and I can compete with that rate. It's a lot of competition at that rate. It's a lot of competition and there's many, many loans that have been lost to the in-house lender with the builder because they have all the money and all the different pockets and they can shift the things around. But ultimately, if we go back to what are we trying to achieve and we're trying to help people achieve homeownership and if you go back to that foundational reason, can you hate on it? No, it stinks, because you could have done a lot of work, built a lot of relationships, spent a lot of time to ultimately not win the file. But the truth of the matter is, whether they went new construction or existing you could still possibly lose the file for many different reasons and you know it's just another layer of competition that we have to do.

Speaker 3: 1:07:03

But ultimately, from a new construction aspect, I do think that you touched on it about this education piece Because unfortunately, I have seen a lot of people, especially in Military City USA, who have bought new construction and then have gotten orders and intend to sell that property and can't because that neighborhood is still building new. And how many buyers want the three-year-old home in the new construction neighborhood when I can go get everything brand new for almost the exact same price point or lower and get all that financing, as opposed to buying it as an existing home? And so that has to be the bigger picture and the bigger dialogue as an existing home, and so that has to be the bigger picture and the bigger dialogue. And so I think the more that we're educating our buyers, that we're educating our realtors on that, is very, very important. But ultimately it's just another factor. It's another factor that we have to compete with and why we have to be good in our craft and understand you win some and you lose some.

Speaker 1: 1:08:01

Let me ask you all this, have you adjusted the way you go about the initial conversation since we've seen this uprising in new construction being a part of the decision making?

Speaker 3: 1:08:15

I definitely have. I mean, we talk about you know, what type of home are you looking for? Are you looking for new construction or existing? There's a little bit of management too, because nothing in our business is free. It costs us to do our credit reports and all those different things. I had one realtor who was sending a lot of leads for a while, but they always ended up going new construction, and so I had to have the dialogue at one point, and her comment was well, I needed to know if they could go to the $300,000 community or the $400,000 community. And I said, well, let's talk through that you community and I said well, let's talk through that.

Speaker 2: 1:08:47

You know, and I had to educate like well, since my husband owns a brokerage.

Speaker 3: 1:08:54

I kind of you know, approach things maybe a little bit different, but I was like let's have a conversation. You know it takes my time and it costs these resources and more than ever.

Speaker 1: 1:09:01

I think that's important for people to know that are listening. Credit reports have not costed more than they do today.

Speaker 2: 1:09:08

For sure.

Speaker 1: 1:09:09

In addition to the fact that those credit bureaus are now selling your information to trigger leads and essentially making it even more complicated for our side of the tracks Right.

Speaker 3: 1:09:20

Right, and so I had to have a conversation on. You know, if you know that all they're looking for is new construction, please don't send them to me and we had to shift, like that was one of those things about learning through the business getting your knees. It's a question I ask now, when I'm having that dialogue, when the realtor hands over a lead, I, you know, am doing like the what I call like the blind dating questionnaire. Tell me about them. What's their employment? How quickly are they looking to buy? Are they looking at new construction? Like, I have a list of little quick, you know, text messages or questions on the phone, and then it's the same thing with the buyer. I'm not going to come straight out and ask it, but I'm going to make sure that we loop it into the convo so that I can ensure that. Am I going to be a good resource for you or am I just going to be a step in the path and maybe we can help streamline that?

Speaker 3: 1:10:03

and you can go straight to new construction.

Speaker 1: 1:10:04

That is a much better way of saying am I wasting my time or not? Truly and I appreciate that you articulated it that way, because most would have said am I wasting my time or not? But truly, that's a deeper way to look at it.

Speaker 3: 1:10:20

Yeah, Well, because hopefully I would like to get a lead for someone who's going to buy existing construction from this realtor at some point, but we got to screen them a little bit.

Speaker 1: 1:10:28

That's right, and coach.

Speaker 4: 1:10:30

Yes, I just sent a conversation over to Mark last week about this because I have agent partners and you know it does hurt whenever you lose a buyer that you've been working with for a long time to new build. And sometimes it happens. Sometimes they see 5, 10, 15, 20 pre-owned homes. They make offers, they get beat out, hey, we got to go new construction. And then like emotionally you're like I totally understand, Like I get it. I would do the same.

Speaker 2: 1:10:56

I want a refund. Yeah, here is the cost of the report. Give me my time back.

Speaker 4: 1:11:06

Last week. But last week I had a phone call and the agent's like I don't know anything about her and I'm like, okay, first red flag. But then I hop on the call with the buyer. You know we're having that high, high trust and I I always ask, I just say, okay, if you had a magic wand, what does your new home to you look like? You know you're, once you start talking about buying a home, I know and I tell them I was like I know what you're doing at night. I know you're hopping on Redfin, on Zillow and looking at homes. What are you looking at? Like, are you looking at the cute ones downtown? Are you looking? You know, in medical center, where are you looking?

Speaker 4: 1:11:33

And from the get go she was like I know I want a brand new home. And I was like, okay, great, then let's pivot this conversation. I don't want to waste your time and I'm going to be honest with you. You're going to have to go through this process twice. You're going to have to go through me, go through my vetting process, a zoom call. You need to send me all your documents before I even issue this letter and then you're going to go find a new build community and do it again. So she goes oh, I don't want to do that, I only want to do this one. So I told the agent. I was like hey, listen, I was on the phone with her for 15 minutes and she told me that she wants a new built home.

Speaker 4: 1:12:05

So unfortunately, I didn't take the application and the knee jerk reaction was well, how do I know what they're approved for? And I'm like you're statistically, yeah, statistically. I looked back. I was like, oh my gosh, you have sent me 30 people, 30 people to pull credit on run applications. And we're talking like three months postpartum.

Speaker 4: 1:12:26

I came up here on a Saturday with her and some buyers to get paper documents in person application. Two hours in person, great phone call. And then I find out that day after I come in on a Saturday, um, to meet with them in person. That same day they went to a big builder and went under contract. And I'm like man, that like that's time that you can't get back, forget the money. But like that's time, that's that's time. And you know there is a vetting process. And I was like you know, it's okay that I don't get all of your deals If it doesn't convert. I want to help and so if you know they're going new build, let me know. Give me the premise and I'll. I'll help as much as I can, but just don't do the smoke and mirrors of well, let me see what I can do and then get them under contract at New Build, just be honest.

Speaker 1: 1:13:24

So, nicole, do you remember what I tell you guys often when it comes to people that go, new construction and you didn't vet them up front to find out.

Speaker 4: 1:13:30

Essentially, similar to a rate shopper, I lost a deal. What was my response? You can't lose something you never had. But I will say the hard part is when we do vet them and we do have these calls. And you know we're on a Zoom call at 7 pm and I'm like, hey, look at all of these homes, you're approved for 250. Like, look at this one, this one's really cute. Maybe you could go see this and the conversations that we have.

Speaker 4: 1:13:46

The longevity how long do you plan to stay in the home? Oh, you're active duty. Okay, are you going to be in for longer than two years? Like, what does that look like for you? And then I do tell them like, hey, look, brand new homes are beautiful, they smell great, they look great, we love it. You're going to have to go get your tires redone because there's nails on the street, probably if they're still building. But it's great. But, based on what you're telling me, you want to be close to the city limits, you want to be close to here. Don't go new build, because you're going to sacrifice all of this and then, when it's time to sell, you're going to be either upside down or having a really tough time selling against the builder, and so we have those really good conversations, and then it just takes me by surprise when they're like, oh, those are really good points. So I have, I struggle with that, because we do have those conversations and then they go new build and I'm like what?

Speaker 2: 1:14:35

Well, this problem ain't going away. No, it's not no it's probably going to be worse.

Speaker 1: 1:14:38

Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:14:39

We got lots of land in Texas. Everybody's coming to Texas. I don't know if we're the best or most construction state.

Speaker 1: 1:14:45

Probably pretty high on the list, but we're way up there.

Speaker 2: 1:14:48

So if you can't beat them, join them right. So I would suggest that the builders in town not your big ones right, Because they all have preferred partnerships. I mean, there are tons of builders that don't have relationships with lenders. Even some of the builders that do have their own relationship, they either joint venture or they own the mortgage company. They've got overlays, they're tight, they don't want to, you know, lend on a deal that may be risky. There's opportunities for us as originators and anybody else. I mean, you're upset that the builder's taking your business. Well, guess what? Go partner with the builder.

Speaker 3: 1:15:18

That's right.

Speaker 2: 1:15:18

Share with the builder. Look, my team, my company we pre-qualify a 100 people every month that don't know about your product. Why don't we both jointly promote each other? If I bring you a deal, you let me keep it. You offer the same incentives and from time to time, when a lender can't get done something that you think should be done, let me have a look at it and I'll come and fix it for you and then go after those particular relationships. But remember, this isn't like oh, I did it once and I should get the deal. This is going to be a three month, six month kind of project that you're working on to where the sales rep starts saying your name. Maybe there's a sales manager or division leader that you've reached out to that starts saying your name and they start talking about the same person. Then they go okay, that'll be your break.

Speaker 1: 1:16:00

And you mentioned something there that I think those out there that are struggling in regards to the new construction concept is if you want to be a part of new construction, go get you some new construction. Go find out how hard it is to not only be at their beck and call 24-7, weekends, etc. But also cut your compensation at the same time to be able to offer all these other incentives that they're offering your new construction loan officer. Truth Bomb does not make the same as a mortgage lender on our side of the tracks. So, in regards to a comparison, would you think that somebody making less is going to fight as hard to get that deal solved when there's an issue that arises? And I'll let you mull on that, but I looked up here just to see. It says well, let's see here Leading metros.

Speaker 1: 1:16:57

I don't think it gives it to us in regards to the whole United States, but it is saying that Houston lead, led Texas with over thirty nine thousand 39,000, uh, new construction, 15% of the year. Uh, 15% year over year increase. Let me see here Building permits accounting. Uh, national leaders. Yeah, it looks like Texas is number one. So you were correct on that. Um, guys, this has been a pretty damn good discussion thus far. Now I want to get you guys to put the cherry on top. Some advice for loan that they could implement and possibly change the course of their career in the next 30 to 60 days.

Speaker 2: 1:17:56

No means no, no, n-o means K-N-O-W. So I want you to all get yourself a list, a hit list right, of real estate agents, business partners, financial planners, divorce attorneys, builders, like whoever you think it is that needs to know you right? I want you to make a list, start with 50, right, and I want you to be able to call that list right Every Monday for three hours. I want you to dial and I want you to call them, and when they answer, I want you to say thank you for answering. I'm so excited that you answered right. Just be your human self. Tell them that you want to have an appointment with them. Tell them you want to get to meet them. Tell them you need to know them. Like, how'd you get in the business? You know, what do you do, what do you like about it, what are you struggling with? You know? Just get to know. You Say that's no problem. I'm just glad that you got to say hello to me, because when you tell me no, that means you know me right, and so, if you can get 50 people, my goal is to have 300 people who know me right, 50 people that refer me, 10 people that are just my raving fans right. That's my goal for this year and so this is part of to get me there right.

Speaker 2: 1:19:09

I got to do this right, and you may stretch it out even farther. Mark's got this by boatloads. There's got to be like a thousand people that can see you. You got to be seen. So I want you to get a Google my Business right. I want you to get on. Social is difficult for me. I'm not very social, you know. So that's that's one of my things where I'm going in there and I'm like liking comments and I'm like commenting you know, heartfelt comments. You know like I like that. You know, tell me more about that house, you know. And then I DM people and I'm trying to set appointments. It's like literally like friction for me. It's so hard for me to every day, just do 10 posts.

Speaker 1: 1:19:42

And Joel, I want to give you a tidbit. Everybody thinks that this is Mark. That's what he thinks about. Guys, I literally for many years had it scheduled in my calendar to post, to go in and like to go in and comment for many years. Just so you guys know 630 in the morning.

Speaker 2: 1:20:02

I have it blocked 30 minutes where it's a screen to screen selling Right, so I'm persuading people into knowing who I am. So 6.30 in the morning, I have it blocked 30 minutes where it's a screen-to-screen selling right, so I'm persuading people into knowing who I am. So when I call them, like this is strategic, like I look at the agent, I see the production and I look at the buyer business. So now I know there's somebody that I can help, I'm not going to call on the agents that don't have any buyer business. That's right. Now you can call me. I'll be glad to help you, because there are those agents that are brand new, that turn into rock stars. That's right. Very few can actually do it, but they are still there. But I'm very mindful about the production.

Speaker 2: 1:20:37

You guys can look this up either through a paid service or other systems that actually show production and where it's coming from. So you're on purpose, by design, looking for people that you can help. This isn't like I want to find somebody who can give me business no, people that you can help. And this isn't like I want to find somebody who can give me business. No, this is somebody that you believe you can be a resource for and you can partner with and you can actually help each other, get more people across the finish line, because we have a responsibility to have a positive impact in our community and the home ownership is a vehicle for it.

Speaker 2: 1:21:00

And so if you go in with that mindset that somebody needs my help today and I just need to find them, so if I'm hesitant to make my phone calls, I'm not going to get to that person and that person is going to choose some other shitty lender and they're going to be stuck with some sort of horrible experience and they're never going to get referred again Right, and they're going to get out of the business, when really the opportunity to have a better financial future for themselves Right For their, their clients, you know, for their friends and family like this is bigger than just like one particular event Right. And so if you can attack it like that and make yourself do the things, who was it? Nick Saban, right? The Alabama coach? Can you make yourself do the things that you're supposed to do and can you make yourself not do the things you're not supposed?

Speaker 1: 1:21:41

to do that's right Can you do that every day.

Speaker 2: 1:21:42

Amen to that. So that would be my suggestion, and I'm right there with you, so I'm in the trenches with you.

Speaker 1: 1:21:46

That's right, and one thing that I can say that this panel is not lacking is passion for helping people. It has shown through this entire time, in not only your explanations, but in just the way you articulate your point. I appreciate that, but let's continue.

Speaker 3: 1:22:09

Clarissa, is there anything that you would give in way of advice? Or you want to pass it to Nicole and come back to you? I mean I'll, I'll take it. So I would say, just consistency. I mean it's very easy, Like, let's put it in the perspective of working out and eating healthy. I'm not doing that right now, so I'm not even going to pretend that I am, but at one time I was very much on it.

Speaker 3: 1:22:23

But you have to be consistent, like the choices that you're making where you're investing your time going to the gym, whatever the case may be, it has to be the same for your business. And so if it is making those calls so that people know you, if it's whatever those activities are, you need to define them and then structure your day week after week to do the same activities, Because it's great to do it for a week or two. But if you fall off which is so easy for people to do think about New Year's resolutions, right, it's so easy to do You're never going to get the results. And then you go into this complain poor me mode. Nobody wants to hear it Like, let's just be honest.

Speaker 3: 1:23:00

You know what I mean, like you have to do the work if you want the results and you have to hold yourself accountable. Because you can come into the office, you can have an amazing manager, but ultimately you have to have the one in the desire and you have to build your day accordingly. We are all individual contributors, we all have tasks to do, we know what we need to do and if you don't know what you need to do, get with somebody to help kind of guide you and build that but it has to be consistent, day in, day out, week after week, in order to be successful.

Speaker 1: 1:23:33

And just to piggyback on that with the consistency concept, everything that we do in our side of the business has about a 45 to 60 day lag. Yes, the idea of you getting a buyer and on that day you pre-qualified them, got their documents reviewed, jumped on a call with them, gave them their options and they found a house the next weekend have diminished for many reasons.

Speaker 2: 1:23:51

Market conditions, Even when they find the house, they kill it over the inspection. Right or now they have.

Speaker 3: 1:23:57

Like that?

Speaker 2: 1:23:57

Yes, like I was just. Even when all the stars align right, they're like how's the month going? They fall apart as soon as I get them put together right.

Speaker 1: 1:24:06

And that's just something you got to be ready for it's the nature of the new beast that has been created.

Speaker 2: 1:24:10

It takes a minute. You know, it is not something that you just hey Joel said you should call somebody and they'll send you business. I was like eh, kind of Like it's going to take a lot of time and and most of us give up because we want that instant gratification. That's right, we are we are built for it. I called you. You didn't answer. I'm going to call somebody else.

Speaker 3: 1:24:27

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:24:29

What's the matter?

Speaker 3: 1:24:30

And I think that's where you have to assess too, because what worked for somebody may not work for you and you have to find out what those activities are and then, ultimately, when you start seeing like the outcome that you want, build on that, invest your time, like shift where you're spending your time, and that took a while to kind of figure out, and then after I was like, oh, this works for me, like now, okay, that's my non-negotiable, I have to do this if I want results in 45 to 60 days and continue to see that. But if you slack for whatever the case may be, because you went on vacation or it's end of year or it's the holidays, you're going to see that impact in your pay in your production, and so you have to have a version of that that you can sustain day in, day out.

Speaker 1: 1:25:11

I agree. And just one thing to add to that it may not be always the activity that is applied. It might be your application and how you're applying that. What works for Joel may not work for me because of the way that I'm going about it. Open houses, they don't work for me. Well, did you do all the pre-work beforehand to make that open house a success? Well, no. Well then, how the hell are you ever going to know if it's going to work correctly, Right?

Speaker 2: 1:25:42

Anywho, Nicole, I would like to say that that's how I started my mortgage business. Yeah right, courtney used to make me cookies handmade cookies and we put them in the cellophane and she'd take a little ribbon and she would like take the scissor and rip it and it would like curl up. I could never do it, so I would go to the open houses with like a diet coke and cookies and I was like 11 and I was walking up to these people. So, even though the open house doesn't necessarily get you a deal, it creates that like salesmanship, like I'm doing something I'm terrified of doing, right, I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'm just going to do it anyways. And it's that, rep, and that practice, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:26:18

And so the more you practice, the more confident you come. Like, when you start to practice really, really well, you get confidence in the work. It's not even about the actual deal that you did, and that comes across in your initial loan consultations. It comes across in your discipline to yourself when you tell yourself I can't leave today until I do these things, like my future self depends on it, right, I can't get to the version that I need to be without myself, right? And you're married and you got a new baby and everything that I need to be without myself, right. And you're married, you got a new baby and everything, and I told them, like when somebody bets on you and they marry you and they choose you, you have a responsibility not to let them down because they bet their life on you. That's right. So just take it up. Take it a little bit more seriously than we do.

Speaker 1: 1:26:57

Yes, that's strong Go ahead, nicole.

Speaker 4: 1:27:01

Well, I'm going to come off really strong, but there was one phrase that was told to me, or I heard somewhere, and it's no one cares, work harder. No one cares. You need to work harder, and sorry, the worst.

Speaker 4: 1:27:18

But no, and like initially you're like shit, you don't care, because I'm an empath, but at the end of the day, no one cares because my husband cares, my baby cares. Those are the people who count on me to pay the bills. My husband I partially retired him, so I am the sole winner of the income for our house. So I have a lot on my shoulders. But nowadays, in 2025, we're talking you need to make double the calls, the 10 calls that you made before. That used to set you one appointment. You need to make 25. And then you need to set two appointments, because things come up and then somebody cancels or reschedules it and you need to work harder. You need to do more of the things and I'm going to be honest. I don't call a lot of agents right now, although I should Don't shoot the messenger, but the reason I don't is because I'm very intentional and when I say that when I call an agent, they're getting 30 calls from lenders. Anyone can issue a pre approval letter. But what sets you apart? Why should they listen to you? What is your intention? Why should you choose me against the other 1400 lenders in San Antonio? You have one that you do business with. Why do you want to work with me? I don't want all of your business, but I'm, as a lender, I'm here to tell you that I'm going to do tough deals. I'm going to do manufactured homes. I'll I'll. I'll dive deep into renovation loans and I will figure out a solution for things that you know maybe your other lender doesn't want to do because I am hungry. And I don't want your cookie cutter down payment assistance programs. I'll, I'll do those too. But what I'm saying is you got somebody who's hungry and that is more powerful than somebody who knows what to do, because somebody who's hungry is going to find a way and be solutions driven.

Speaker 4: 1:29:06

When you're faced with a problem, when you're faced with a credit challenge buyer, don't just say, oh, I don't have time for you. Find a solution and, even if it's a year from now, do your damn best, because you're not here wasting time waiting for the next pre-approved buyer to fall on your lap. Sometimes you got to mold it, sometimes you got to bake it, sometimes you got to do different things for it. And sometimes, in this ever-changing environment, when I hear somebody say, well, so-and-so lender said that this changed, I'm like, oh shoot, I got to go double check that guideline, because things are changing and things are changing rapidly. So the file that we closed last month might not be able to be closed or duplicated this month because of the guideline changes that are taking place, and we got to stay ahead of it and sometimes you got to get back into a loan that you hold, an application that you pulled three months ago, because of the overtime thing.

Speaker 4: 1:29:53

Now is their busy season, december wasn't. So hey, let's refresh this. Let me stay front of mind and get out of the imposter syndrome, because the world needs loan officers who know what they're doing, but to also take charge and not just let other people in the transaction run the ship. That's a great point. We need to take control of this ship and tell people what they can do. Hey, 250, let's go. What do you see? Let's go, take a look at it and refresh everything. Be front of mind, because if it's not you, they're scrolling on Instagram and they're listening to the most basic key points where I'm like, oh, three and a half percent down.

Speaker 2: 1:30:31

OK, Mark's podcast.

Speaker 4: 1:30:33

No, mark does great things and I'm trying to, you know, touch on more specific things, but I'm like man, these people are touching like the most black and white pinpoint, the most valuable thing somebody can give you is their attention. Uh-huh.

Speaker 2: 1:30:47

Right, and it's. I'm not good at it, I want to be better at it.

Speaker 1: 1:30:50

It's part of my stuff, you know they have to be good at grabbing the attention and holding it just for a second, get consistent at getting uncomfortable to the point that you can do more things, that you're uncomfortable to the point that you can not only be the expert but start playing around with it. And what I mean by that is there's a level of confidence that you achieve in the tasks that we do that you can go OK, I can just do it. Or I can really do it, and people go, he's doing it differently. Yeah, because I got tired of being consistent with it at this level. So now I'm going to sprinkle something on it and if it doesn't work, no big deal. I know that the basics of it does, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 1:31:41

Yeah, you don't want to be mediocre.

Speaker 1: 1:31:43

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:31:43

Like, put a baseline that you can live off of it. Then now start experimenting with you, start doing different things and go, hey, I got a little bit better. You know reaction from that particular could be a post, could be a video, could be in a seminar webinar you know that realtor lunch and whatever it is and start looking for the things that are doing well. Don't be afraid Failure to launch right. Don't be afraid to try new things. That's a great movie, by the way.

Speaker 2: 1:32:06

And so go do it. If it sucks, I don't care, right, if nobody saw it. Nobody saw it, so it doesn't matter, right? So just go do something else. When you have a bad sales call or you have a bad phone call, the next person you talk to has no idea what. Just just go next, right? And just get up the first get up another at bat, that's right and it's fresh, the first call.

Speaker 4: 1:32:27

The first call is always the worst, every single day. The first call of the day, you're like the first cut is the deepest.

Speaker 1: 1:32:33

Just tell them congratulations, you're my first call of the day this is gonna suck and they may laugh yes and then all of a sudden you go, wait a minute, that ice is broken I tell them congratulations.

Speaker 2: 1:32:43

Like what you made my list. I'm like what list? The list of people I need to call today.

Speaker 1: 1:32:48

That's right. And now, all of a sudden, you've humanized yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:32:52

Well, because they know they should be doing the same thing.

Speaker 1: 1:32:54

That's right they prospect.

Speaker 2: 1:32:56

They lead, jim, they're doing things. I'm doing the same thing, so they can, even when they say no. No means no. So now they're in my network and now they know who I am. And so those hard deals, like most of the relationships that I consider valuable partnerships, have come from a moment in need, not because I convinced some top producing agent that they should send me all their business, that's right. I don't want to spend money out of the gate. I will help partner right when it makes sense for us to both mutually benefit from some kind of paid partnership. But usually that realtor had a client that got bad information or something came in different and because you've been calling them and being a resource and just promoting yourself, they go I need help. And who do they think of? Right, they're thinking Nicole, and then they call you and you get the deal done, and then now you are the one.

Speaker 1: 1:33:43

That's right. And one last thing before I go into our conclusion here. But if you're a loan officer out there that is still getting pissed off that your agent did a transaction with someone else another lender you're way behind. There is no way that one realtor is going to be able to stick with you as their lender for all of their deals, nor do would you advise on that. That's like putting all your eggs in one basket. Essentially, you can have great partnerships Nobody's saying that I have plenty of them.

Speaker 1: 1:34:16

I'm sure we all do but the idea of you getting upset that they have to utilize another lender should be something like a go for it. Hopefully there's a different experience that you receive. If you learn anything, awesome, let me know. If not, now you know why you use me Concept. So, guys, I want to thank you so much for being on this panel. It wasn't an easy discussion, especially talking about something that is heavily criticized and shied away from including branch managers to their loan officers. When it comes time for one-on-ones, a lot of folks are not being honest. They're stroking the ego, trying to keep them in the business instead of being honest with the potential of them leaving, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 1:35:04

This is not going to fix itself.

Speaker 1: 1:35:06

No, this is not going to fix itself. No, it is not, you are correct.

Speaker 2: 1:35:08

Yeah, I think a lot of us thought that, just get through it, just get through it.

Speaker 1: 1:35:11

It's not me. It's going to get better. I've been thinking it's going to get better.

Speaker 2: 1:35:15

It's going to get better. Like Joel, your production says that's not the case. That's right. So eventually you have to be authentic, right?

Speaker 1: 1:35:27

Like be real with your own self, and it's a conversation that none of us really want to have, amen. I've got a couple of key factors here that I listed just to kind of cap this thing off. Number one authentic relationships win over transactions. Clarissa, you honed in on that specifically today and I have to agree with it wholeheartedly. The idea of being transactional sounds real, similar to kind of like a bank and we don't deal with that side. We put deals together, we advise, we structure, we set proper expectations. We don't push paper period.

Speaker 1: 1:35:59

Number two systems and structures are non-negotiables for top producers. For those that are maybe not top producers but making it in today's market, if you're not leveraging your systems, if you yourself don't even have a system that you can refer back to as a matter of fact, at a certain point in time in my career, that is something that I coached my loan officers to do Go talk to a realtor and your value proposition is your process. Talk to them about your process and what you take their borrowers through and how they plug into that process and how you're going to use it to help them grow. Yeah, and I think not a lot of loan officers are allowing the realtors into their true process. Why? Because they don't have one or they don't follow it themselves.

Speaker 2: 1:36:45

Yeah, One of the best things is like invite them over to your branch right when you work and say I want you to have a good idea of what a client would experience when you decide to partner with us and refer them and kind of walk them through the journey on what a borrower would be going through. Right, because that way what's great about our business is that there's real estate agents, there's appraisers, there's title companies, there's vendors like Survey and Insurance. There's a whole bunch of different industries all within it and if we only know our little bitty part, we're not very good of a resource for the entire process. So by having a better understanding of the entire hey, my name is Mark to congratulations on your home, right, there's a lot of things that go through there and you can navigate those situations. So for the agent to come over, nobody invites them into their house and says come on over and take a look.

Speaker 1: 1:37:36

That's a big deal, it's different, that's right, they don't want to see how dirty the house is you? Know. The last one here and I think it's one of the most important ones is skill and adaptability matter more than ever in our industry. Working with an expert is going to be the key to you succeeding as a home buyer, succeeding to you as a realtor trying to close more deals, somebody that will be confident enough in their expertise to be able to set proper expectations, be honest with the customers.

Speaker 2: 1:38:15

And in this case, sometimes no does mean no. No, not right now.

Speaker 1: 1:38:16

Not right now. There you go, or how, in that light. So, guys, briefly, if you have anything else to add, please, now is the time I wanted to talk just real quick about.

Speaker 2: 1:38:28

Triggerlead, you mentioned it right. So we're competing. How are we losing deals? The builders take our business, Okay, but the guys bigbankcom online lender I call them. I call them, yeah, yeah, mortgage, right. If you pull a hard pull on a client, they are immediately going to receive probably 50 phone calls and texts and emails of a bunch of lenders who literally are sitting at their coffee table right in their underwear with a parrot as their compliance officer or something, and they have no real knowledge of the lending business. They are just there to get the lead, bring it in and that's it, that's exactly correct.

Speaker 2: 1:39:04

Right, and so we switch to a soft pull workflow.

Speaker 1: 1:39:07

So I would talk to A lot cheaper too.

Speaker 2: 1:39:09

Yes, Well, soft pulls are more expensive. Now right.

Speaker 1: 1:39:12

They're more expensive, but not as much as a hard pull.

Speaker 2: 1:39:15

Correct. You can reissue conventional files, fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. You cannot do it on government loans, but you can look at a deal you can pre-qualify. Obviously, if you need to do some heavy lifting, you're going to have to pull a hard pull and start to originate it. But just by us shifting and basically saying hey, everybody's standard operating procedure is soft pull first, see if you can make a decision on it, give them the opt-out information so they can suppress and protect their information, and then a week later come back and pull a hard pull. When you communicate that to a client about what's about to happen, they immediately go oh my gosh, I didn't know that. Right, I'm so glad you told me. So I'm already connected to them. It's like I'm trying to protect them and I now suppress the trigger event. So my capture rate is better, my closing percentage is better because I'm not competing against a bunch of other people that I shouldn't be competing with. That's right.

Speaker 2: 1:40:02

You said nobody cares. Nobody cares about how much you know in this business. That's right. They don't care about how good you are. All they care about is what's my rate, what's my closing cost. That's how they're going to look at it. They walk down the aisle at the home loan store and they say, oh, I'm going to take that FHA loan right there. It's got the good rate and it's got You're right.

Speaker 2: 1:40:21

This is going to be bad news. So we try to have those conversations up front. We even go a step farther with our referral partners and say, hey, this should be a part of your buyer consultation. Why don't you give them this information? So when I talk to them the first time, it's highly likely I could pull a hard pull, because now it's going to be suppressed, because it's not going to be there.

Speaker 1: 1:40:36

So soft pulls are a big deal and I think everybody should be utilizing them no-transcript, so that you don't receive the flood of text messages, calls from people that don't know what the hell they're doing. They're here to try and get the credit pool, and this is optoutscreeningcom. You come in here, you literally hit opt them out. They decide to electronically opt out for five years and then you put their information in you're good to go. Now, mind you, it takes a little while for this to actually work, so make sure you have that conversation up front. Knock this out, so once you actually do pull credit, it's already in place. Um, nicole, clarissa, anything?

Speaker 4: 1:41:55

Um, if you want to buy a home and you're finding yourself telling yourself that you can't, I challenge you to look inside and call a loan officer and see if you actually can, if it's something that you want to do because you don't know your options. You don't know what you don't know. But that's why you have a team and that's what we're here for to help you determine. It's never too soon. It's never too soon, especially if you think that you need some handholding, that's okay. Nobody's perfect, nobody is perfect. If you think that you need some handholding, that's okay. Nobody's perfect, nobody is perfect. So just reach out to a loan officer. We are not scary, we do not bite, and actually I would encourage you to speak with a loan officer before getting connected to a realtor to make your life so much easier. So then that way, you can set that expectations of what you can afford and have a better experience, because homeownership can be for everyone.

Speaker 1: 1:42:44

That's what we're here for, because homeownership can be for everyone. That's what we're here for, and now it's time for a shameless plug. So if you're a borrower out there, that you maybe you're not ready to talk to a loan officer. Maybe you want all the options, kind of like WebMD. Visit ReviewMyMortgagecom. You can get all of the options that are viable for your current situation, based on your credit score, down payment area that you're looking, including down payment assistance, bond loans, et cetera. On ReviewMyMortgagecom, which is the largest index of mortgage programs in the nation Clarissa, you got anything I would just close out on.

Speaker 3: 1:43:16

It's important that you get connected with someone who has a similar style, similar work ethic that's going to be available when you're available. That goes both for our realtors as well as our borrowers, and so someone who is going to have the empathy to your specific situation that is going to lead with knowledge and care and compassion, I think is extremely important and, as a realtor, when you're referring somebody, making sure that there is that connection, it's very easy to turn this into a transactional business, but when there is that bond, I think we have such a greater success rate and we're able to truly meet, like, the mission of getting more homeowners out there, yeah, and generating wealth through real estate.

Speaker 1: 1:43:53

I have to agree with that completely, guys. This has been an awesome discussion, I think one of the best that I've had in quite some time and I'm a little biased because I'm a lender and I love this business being able to chop it up with other professionals, experts that know what the hell they're talking about, are honest about the struggles that we do have as originators and can push past that to still continue to provide for our families in a market where it's like, well, what the hell is going on? Which way is up, you know. I want to thank you all for joining us today.

Speaker 2: 1:44:28

Thanks for inviting us.

Speaker 1: 1:44:30

Heck yeah. Hopefully we can have more discussions down the road. Jc, if you can share on screen just for a moment, I want to thank you guys for continuing to show support and listening to what we are talking about in these discussions. Hopefully you're grabbing something and not treating it like a motivational seminar and actually applying it in your everyday transaction to make your your business value more valuable, to make your relationships a little bit deeper, um, and to help more buyers accomplish that goal of homeownership. We've achieved 23 and a half 23 and a half thousand subscribers and growing.

Speaker 2: 1:45:09

I hope I get you one more. Me too, man, it's just nuts.

Speaker 1: 1:45:15

We don't make any money from this by any means, but, like I always say, it's free therapy for me and a lot of people get to learn some stuff that they wouldn't have otherwise. So again, thanks for joining me for this discussion. You guys out there, thank you for continuing support and we will catch you on the next one. Thank you. Trying to become a homeowner is so frustrating. I mean, I wish it were easy to find out what options or things I may qualify for.

Speaker 3: 1:45:42

There actually is an easier way. I'd love to tell you about it.

Speaker 1: 1:45:45

There is a hold on let me call you back.

Speaker 2: 1:45:52

Okay, I'm interested. What's?

Speaker 3: 1:45:53

the catch? There's no catch. If you have two minutes, I can literally show you now, it's really easy.

Speaker 2: 1:45:56

Sure, let's go. It's going to code to you line by line and have you answer some questions that'll identify the best loan products for you, starting with the property address, which is specific to the area.

Speaker 1: 1:46:04

which programs will work for you?

Speaker 3: 1:46:06

It's going to guide you through a series of numbers, loan options, and give you everything so you can choose what works best for you.

Speaker 1: 1:46:11

Well, I had no idea there were so many options out there. For me it was so easy, it was so quick and you didn't even have to run my credit.

Speaker 3: 1:46:18

I know I told you in less than two minutes. Right, did I make it?