Key Factors RealEstateAF

Know Your Worth | From Property Management to Real Estate Success

• Mark A Jones - Founder of ReviewMyMortgage.com

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Real Estate Journey & Emotional Intelligence (Guest: Denise Bocanegra)

Join Denise Bocanegra as she shares her journey from Property Management to becoming a successful realtor. Learn about the importance of emotional intelligence, building client relationships, and navigating today's challenging real estate market.

Podcast Description:
In this episode of Key Factors Podcast: Real Estate AF, host Mark Jones sits down with Denise Bocanegra, a dedicated realtor with deep insights into real estate's complexities and emotional intelligence. Denise shares her journey, from beginning in property management to overcoming fears of commission-based income. She highlights her strategies in client communication, the significance of understanding a client's goals, and the role of emotional intelligence in building lasting client relationships. Dive into practical advice on adapting to current market challenges, the evolving role of real estate agents, and empowering buyers and sellers with knowledge to make informed decisions.

🎙️ New Episode Alert! 🎙️
This week on Key Factors Podcast: Real Estate AF, host Mark Jones speaks with Denise Bocanegra, a passionate realtor who shares her journey from property management to thriving in real estate. Learn how emotional intelligence, genuine connections, and market adaptability make all the difference in real estate success. Denise’s insights on setting boundaries, understanding client needs, and managing expectations are a must-listen!

Tune in to discover how emotional intelligence can be a game-changer in real estate! 🎧 #KeyFactorsPodcast #RealEstateAF #RealEstateJourney

Key Factors Podcast is Powered by ReviewMyMortgage.com
Host: Mark Jones | Sr. Loan Officer | NMLS# 513437
If you would like to work with Mark on your next home purchase or as a partner visit iThink Mortgage.

Speaker 1:

eyeball and it'll pop up anytime on all the frames. Black magic or?

Speaker 2:

road caster no, neither it's the iphone.

Speaker 1:

Oh see where it says mark iphone.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you pop up so he gets to be on camera too, oh yeah, he's.

Speaker 1:

He's been the last three looking enough, or what I like your hat my wife picked it up.

Speaker 1:

Jc, I like your face, thank you. Uh, I'm ready to start when you are. Okay, that's right. Yeah, I'm ready. All right, jc. All right, do a countdown. Yeah, no, cheesy intro. Nah, and here's your host, mark Jones. All right, three, two, one and we're back with another episode of Key Factors Podcast, real Estate AF, where the AF stands for and finance, and I'm your host, mark Jones, and we are powered by ReviewMyMortgagecom, the largest index of mortgage programs in the nation. And on today's discussion, I brought along a guest that I've been trying to get on here in the booth for quite some time. You can actually hear her giggling in the back, but within the next probably 10 seconds she's going to be on camera. So, without further ado, I would like to introduce Denise Bocanegra.

Speaker 2:

Hello everybody, how are you? Doing. I'm doing good. How are you Mark?

Speaker 1:

Doing very well.

Speaker 2:

I'm glad to be here. I saw my original date was July 17th.

Speaker 1:

Whoa. So here I am Finally so like if not, if at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again, Right, Mark?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, it's in the follow-up. You did it.

Speaker 1:

That's exactly right, and not once have I asked you for business. It's all about getting your take on stuff life, real estate, all of those things. That being the case, I want the folks out there, the listeners, to know who the heck they're listening to today. So if you could, denise, tell us about you.

Speaker 2:

Why did you get into real estate? How did you start in real estate? How long you been in it? Yeah, definitely. I got into real estate really because I had just moved back from South Korea. I was over there with my husband and I started hanging out with my mom because obviously I needed to find a job, and so I was like just back from overseas and I would go to the office with her at Keller Williams.

Speaker 1:

Okay, how long ago was that?

Speaker 2:

That was back in 2012. Okay, gotcha, yeah. And so I just was kind of looking around and I was like she's been doing this and I never thought I should do this Right. And so I was on a new journey because I was coming home and what was I going to do now? And so I started at Keller Williams as an assistant with Bridgman Properties, okay. And so I worked with them for about a year and a half and then I did property management with another company, so I kind of started out in property management.

Speaker 1:

Okay, very good, so you got in around the same time I did. Then 2012? Okay, same.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and Jason Bridgman would always be like just take your test. I was like afraid to go into commission. I don't know why, right, I do know why.

Speaker 1:

I mean, had you ever worked anything commission prior to no no, I was in education before there you go.

Speaker 2:

It was a different.

Speaker 1:

So jumping out into that commission world obviously you wouldn't change a thing for nothing. But there are many folks out there that are in their nine to five, either teacher or something along those lines pays you a salary and no matter how hard you work, you're still going to get paid the same. Or how not hard you work, you still get paid the same. For myself I started, goodness gracious. I've been commissioned for almost all my life. I didn't know any other way. My first non-commissioned job was working at a bank and I was. I couldn't stand it. Why? Because I was the one that was going above and beyond and selling and doing all of these things. And it's like I'm still getting paid the same as that other guy or that other girl.

Speaker 2:

Right, and that was my story all the time. I would always take on tasks that weren't necessarily my job and I would get promotions and things of that nature, so I totally understand. It's like little did I know that was the sales person or the high achiever in me. That was like looking for more.

Speaker 1:

It was like an animal in a cage trying to get out. Yeah, so when you first got into the business obviously a totally different world than what we're living in today what was it like? Obviously, you were in property management side. At what point did you flip over to selling real estate?

Speaker 2:

And what was it like? It was safe because I was getting a paycheck in two weeks and it was. I worked at a really cool company where it was like this is your job and this is what you do. So it felt safe. But I did see a lot of commotion with the real estate agents going on and I was curious, and my mom was always a real estate agent. So one weekend she took a call and she was already in her business where she didn't need to go do that. So her words were to me well, I told her first. I said what are you doing? You're not going to go. She was like no, I'm not going to do it today, I'm not working today, or whatever. I was like you need to go get it. And she was like no, you need to go get it. And I was like you know what I will? That's pretty cool.

Speaker 1:

That is.

Speaker 2:

And so that was the turning point for me. I was like I'm going to do it, and back then I was, you know, nine to five, so it wasn't. Like you know, I think the real estate courses are like $1,500, $2,000 a package. Both her and my husband were like we'll pay for you to just do the whole package, and I was like, no, I'm going to do one class at a time and I'm going to pay for it, and so that's just the way I am. And so I did that and it took me some time. It did. It took me enough time to where the laws changed and I had to take two more courses before I could test. Okay, okay, because I waited a while before I took the test. Sure, still hesitant to go into commission.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And so then I took the finance course and whatever else they added. And then I just went in and took the test and I passed it the first time. I just was like I'm not going to tell anybody, yeah, because what if I fail? And I just went in and I passed it the first time. I walked out and she was like, seriously, the first time, that's great, that doesn't really happen.

Speaker 1:

It's true, it's true. I think I shout out to my mom. She was a realtor back in the day and I think she had to take the test maybe three, four times before she passed it. Obviously she was great at it. But that whole idea of we've been out of school for so long and now I've got to study for this test, what do I expect when I get there? It's daunting. For many and for many others it's just like, okay, I'm going to go in and knock this test out because that is the livelihood that I have to lead moving forward, so I've got to pass this test.

Speaker 2:

For sure, and I've always been a good test taker and I always say some people just aren't good test takers. Absolutely Like. I'm the kind of person that can kind of memorize things and be like okay, got it. Like it was vocabulary too A lot of it is. So I remember, instead of scrolling Facebook, I downloaded the Champions app and I did all the vocabulary. So every time I wanted to pull out my phone I would do that instead of getting on social media.

Speaker 1:

That's pretty smart. Isn't it funny that nowadays, that is the alternative to what we're actually supposed to be doing. It's like okay, instead of getting on social media, I'm going to train myself to send that email or respond to the customer, or study for this. It's always as opposed to social media.

Speaker 2:

Correct, absolutely. Study for this right. It's always, as opposed to social media, correct, absolutely. And it's like a habit stack which I didn't realize I was doing until I read the book and I was like, and I forget the name of the book. Do you know what book?

Speaker 1:

that uh, intentional uh habit stacking it's um. I have it in my phone no, I haven't, but we can look it up jc if you want it's a practice in the habit habit. I've read the book twice and I cannot here it is, boom, have it stacking, but it's in the book, and what. What would like the principle be?

Speaker 2:

well, the principle is it's like okay, every time you pick up your phone, like we're gonna do two healthy habits versus like what we would just go to in default, right, so that we're becoming more productive in our time and intentional in our time. Hold on, I have it in my book Because it's something like Atomic Habits, atomic Habits.

Speaker 1:

Oh yes, I've read that book. Yeah, twice yes.

Speaker 2:

But when you put me on the spot I forget. Kind of like that.

Speaker 1:

How to Build Good Habits. Exactly of like that, how to build good habits. And it's cool that you mentioned the good habits, because when you started, you didn't have those habits. Matter of fact, you didn't even know what the habits were. You had to figure it out, learn, take all you could from your mentors and spheres of influence around you, but once you did what was something that kind of helped you make them stick, because habits are gained over time. It's not like you know what. I'm going to start doing this today and tomorrow. I'm for sure going to do it. No, you got to make sure that your mindset is right to do it again the next day and the next day and the next day.

Speaker 2:

Right. To be honest, I've always been kind of like a studious, kind of nerd person, so I like doing things right. So it wasn't too difficult for me. But having that compound interest of actually seeing the result I had never made that kind of money before. I was second income. Planning to have kids wasn't going to. I didn't think about it yet. I knew one day I was going to do something, but that wasn't where my vision was yet. So having that and seeing that and then hearing people's stories before I started making money was like really, you know, it seemed unbelievable. So it was seeing my mentors, hearing my mentors and then obviously innately who I am, and then it kind of just made sense. So once I got that first check I was like, yeah, let's keep habit stacking. Yes, like let's do it all day. I was so nervous the first time I got my big check I left it in the restroom at title oh my gosh, I believe that.

Speaker 2:

I went to the restroom and I was just like on cloud nine and I washed hands and I left the envelope in the restroom and I was already down 16.04. I was like, oh my God, where's my jacket, oh my goodness.

Speaker 1:

Well, the good news is you were the only one that could cash it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Kind of what year was that that that took place? That had to be like what. Two years later.

Speaker 2:

So? 2014-ish? No, I told you it took a while before you took it. Okay, so I got licensed in 2016.

Speaker 1:

Okay, okay, that's not a bad thing, because when you hit the ground, you hit the ground running. Yeah, I did.

Speaker 1:

You know, so in the beginning, a lot of folks and I get this question a lot that I want to get different perspectives on you being new to this side of a licensed realtor going to get your own business eating what you kill, so to speak. What were some of the things initially that you used to capture business? And let me preface with the reason why I ask is there fast forward to today's market? You jump in a social media group and you could even jump in like a real estate humor group and instead of humor that I'm seeing, I'm seeing how are you guys getting business? Is anybody buying leads? It's like going back to day one with a lot of the folks out there and there's no definitive answer. But for you, denise, what was some of the things that you utilized?

Speaker 2:

So I really listened to my mentors. I spoke to my sphere immediately and I was I prefaced it with, I know my mom's a realtor too, so I get it if you're going to give her the business, but if there's anybody on their downline or someone you know, I'll take rentals. I took rentals. It was a joke. Some of my mentors at the time were like Denise will take the rentals and I was at the time. I was like felt a little slighted. But they were bigger rentals. They were like $2,300 rent, $3,200. And those turned into buyers.

Speaker 1:

Oh, absolutely. That's literally what I was going to say is there are a lot of folks that still I don't think today, in today's market, are down on rentals but before, when we'll call it the heydays would turn away rentals. I'm too good for that or I don't have time for that. In actuality, it's like do you not realize that you're building your book of business for the future?

Speaker 2:

Because these people, even though they're renting now, I got them in a house the next year to two years and they were grateful because a lot of them weren't thinking about it yet, and so they were like I can't believe we did this and I'm like we did it, you know. So it's very fun. Growing up in San Antonio, I leaned into, like you know, I used to be in dance and just all the friends I made in the different groups I was in. I did stuff after when I was in college where I had groups where I was a part of and I've literally sold houses to, like peers from 20 years ago. That's awesome. So I leaned into my sphere and then I was always oversharing on social media. That was before. It was a thing before we were making reels and doing all that.

Speaker 2:

I was doing that and they would literally tell me you're, they were teaching that and I was doing it. But it was doing it because that's just what my, our generation did right, right.

Speaker 1:

So it was just being real.

Speaker 2:

And so right now, when we're in this part of the industry where we kind of have, like these, scripted reels or whatever, it feels so weird for me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But I feel I'm torn, because I feel like sometimes I'm like do I need to do that too?

Speaker 1:

And I'm like, no, no, you don't, that's not me, that's right.

Speaker 2:

You know, but it was social media, it was the sphere, and it was just. My mentor would put me on the phone right next door to him and I was a rookie and I was so nervous because I was like he's listening.

Speaker 1:

But I think that feeling of being uncomfortable was like what made me be like screw it man. You said a lot in that little transition there that we can kind of pick apart the idea of the social media piece. You're right, there are a lot of people that are doing a lot of canned responses. Let me jump in chat GPT and tell it to give me a script, et cetera. And will it work? Maybe eventually it will, but I for one, because in 2012, I was one of the first and I can say that confidently to start putting closing pictures on Facebook to talk about mortgages and real estate and things like that on social media, and it was annoying to many because it was over and over. As I progressed in my career, I started sharing more of my personal things, what I'm doing throughout the day, the motivation that it takes me, and most of it wasn't for everybody else, it was for me.

Speaker 2:

That's what I tell people all the time. When you see me on social media, most of the time it's because I'm sharing that piece, because it's my memory. When I'm laying in bed I'm like looking oh my kids, you know it's not always for everyone, I know it's perceived that way and then I have to remind myself but everyone's looking.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I get what you're saying.

Speaker 1:

But that that is also a testament to the those out there wondering what to post. I used to have a rule the 80 20 rule, about you should be posting 80% personal stuff, 20% business stuff. I now believe that that's kind of shifted to 90, 10. People don't want to hear about business all the time.

Speaker 2:

They don't want to hear when they know by now that that's what you do.

Speaker 1:

That's correct.

Speaker 2:

They just want to know. Enough to know. Hey, you're still working.

Speaker 1:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

Like you kind of have to still show up and be like, hey, I'm, you know, informative with whatever's happening. But yeah, you're right, it's shifted.

Speaker 1:

Mm-hmm, and since I mentioned it on the previous past two, I was talking to Dylan Shively about this branding and things of that nature. But it's not enough just to post content on social media. You've got to be in the trenches. You've got to be doing what you say you're doing on social media. You've got to be in the trenches. You've got to be doing what you say you're doing on social in person, on the ground. And there's no way you would have been successful had you not actually been doing those things on the ground. Right? So in regards to your career, once you got in, you're doing a lot of the rental stuff. What are some other things that you were doing that helped you that were aside from social media?

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, like I said, I was on the phone. Um, I would call Fizbo's Um. I.

Speaker 1:

Which stands for cause. Some people out there have no flu.

Speaker 2:

So for sell by owners. I would call for sell by.

Speaker 1:

There you go.

Speaker 2:

And I would ask them what their plan was Right. And then I would say, can I tell you what? What my plan would be if we did that? And maybe we could do it together. And I have a way of making people feel like they're my friend and I really. It's because I'm a friendly person.

Speaker 1:

So they're like. In addition, I will go as far as to say that you've got a very high EQ emotional intelligence.

Speaker 2:

I thank you. I appreciate that because I pride myself in that, because I think that more people would benefit from that if they would practice that Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. It's like you ask some people do you have an inner dialogue, like an inner monodialogue? And they're like what are you talking about?

Speaker 2:

And that's why jokingly when we talked about being PC before we started that is the reason, not because we don't want to, but we want to be considerate of everybody's perspective. I had a client tell me one time that I was very. What did she say? Almost like it's bad, it's not like a politician, but she said you're very. You know, my objective is always just to be even keeled. And she could tell Neutral Kind of a neutral. Neutral, but with giving sound advice on both ends, ends, and then ultimately you're making the decision.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and as an expert, you being one as well. That is our goal, that's our job, that's our fiduciary responsibility is to take everything that you have given to us and hopefully we've asked the right questions to gain enough knowledge about you and your situation to then provide you with these options here. You don't have to pick the one that I'm telling you, but I'm going to tell you why this is the best option.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And I'm not saying that others aren't doing it, but if they aren't, it's something that they need to learn. They need to start picking up, they need to start practicing. Become a habit.

Speaker 2:

For sure, emotional intelligence is important in our industry. They need to start picking up. They need to start practicing, become a habit and not to discredit anybody you know, maybe at the time that worked on the budget or whatever, but I talk about all those things objectively and ultimately make them make the decision they're like what do you think? What do you think? And I'm like this is what I think, if I did this on A and this is what I think on B, but I'm not going to tell you what to do.

Speaker 1:

Right? I'm not Right, and it's tough at times too, because there's this steering out there. We talked about new construction on the last discussion, about how there are a lot of agents out there that are steering their customers to new construction versus asking the questions to determine OK, is this the right thing for my buyer? I just moved here, I'm in the military, I'll probably be PC or I'll be PCSing to wherever in another two years and the agent goes okay, let's go look at new construction. Probably not the best thing for the buyer, maybe the best thing for you as the agent. But did you really do them a injustice or service by taking them that route, knowing what you know about real estate? Right?

Speaker 2:

So not to knock that either right when I started I did a lot of new builds, but.

Speaker 2:

I quickly learned. Luckily, I had peers that were many years in the business and I was aspiring to get the listings that they had. How do you get those? Guess what? You stop just selling new builds. You got to learn pre-owned product and you got to show them the value of the neighborhoods, and so now when I meet my clients, I'm definitely considering like you can get more square footage on an older home.

Speaker 2:

The trees that you talk about, because that's one of the PIPs. I want trees and I want my neighborhood to look established. You know, all those things are over here now. I also explained to them they also didn't have trees when they first started. This is what you have to do to make your house and your community a home right, because a house is a house, but a home is different, and so you have to add the vegetation, you have to add all these things. So, again, giving them both and telling them now what do you think Right? And then, knowing their long-term goal, are you going to sell in a couple of years? Okay, then you're going to be in competition with the builder. Yeah, do you want that?

Speaker 1:

That's true, including and I don't know. But how have you been throughout the last let's call it two years in this industry? Because we've had some folks that, hey, yes, it's tough, but I'm digging my heels in and I'm calling the people that I used to work with, et cetera, to see where they're at. I'm staying in touch with my customers to make sure that there's see where they're at. I'm staying in touch with my customers to make sure that there's any needs that I can help with. And we've had some that are saying we're crushing it, but then, as soon as they leave, we go look up their numbers and they're not crushing it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not crushing it right now and I hate it, but I'm still doing things. They're still working, but it's not what it used to be. And for those people I always say people's blessings come at different times and maybe they're crushing it because that's what God wants for them, right.

Speaker 1:

There you go.

Speaker 2:

But as long as I'm staying alive, I'm good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I always stay in contact with my clients, so I get their listings when they're ready to sell, and so I do a lot of listings right now.

Speaker 1:

Good good.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's steady, but it's not the way it was. But it will be again, and this is my first. I call life cycle of real estate, where I was always waiting for that impending doom of what is now that's a good point.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and I'm like I would get so scared. People would talk about it and I was like I don't want to hear it, I don't know any other life, this wonderful thing. But now that I'm living in it again, I'm surviving, I'm alive. It put perspective on a lot of things, and that even started two, three years back. As you become seasoned, you start recognizing I don't need to be at this event. I need to be more mindful of intentional things like that. So, because I'm a Christian and I believe God always tries to reveal through things, I believe that he wanted to free up some of my time to think about, when we go up again, how are we going to do it better, how are we going to do it different? And so it was a great foundation the first nine years and now we're building better right, and it's not like it's a marathon. I want to be here.

Speaker 1:

That's very true. That's very good. Not going to lie, good to hear.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I want to be successful and steady, but I have two children that I'm raising and they're girls and they need their mama and I need to decompress.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2:

I didn't do that in the beginning, like I could never stop when I first started, like I would lay down and I would wake up and I would lay down, thinking about real estate, wake up and just be like and sometimes your mind was so busy that you didn't know what you were going to do, but you just knew you had to do something. I'm so glad that feeling's gone. Yeah, you know I don't want to operate like that.

Speaker 1:

Totally, totally relate to that. Yeah, it is me personally. Got in the business in 2012, started crushing it at the beginning of 20,. I got in the middle of 2012, 2013,. It just used Facebook and it was whoa holy cow, I go, go, go, go go. And that didn't stop until about 2022. It was like, okay, now we can breathe. Did we do the right things with our money? Okay, we're good, great. Now let's kind of reassess and see where everything is, so that we can hit the ground running again.

Speaker 2:

That's what I'm building for right now and I'm continuing working with my sphere. My people getting my listings and I'm getting listings and I'm like, okay, but are they going to? It's like, just keep getting them. Just get them Right. Of course they're going to sell I'm going to sell them, but you know you don't want to fail your client, Correct. But you're right, you, you hit the ground running and then you look and you're like I've accomplished all this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

What am I going to do next round? And you get to reassess the finances, the children, your relationship, your state of mind, how you've grown and evolved in the industry with your peers.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

And again setting the tone for more intention the next time we go up.

Speaker 1:

That's so true man, you are well-spoken, I love this. So true man, you are well-spoken, I love this. So the idea of being able to reassess and reestablish your goals for the new coming, the new age, the new, let's go get it and you still getting listings. We'll talk about the current market here in a bit, but has the changes with the NAR and all that stuff affected you at all?

Speaker 2:

It hasn't affected me. I mean, I'm very adamant of getting what I'm worth right, and I can articulate that very well. Have I lost business because of it? Yes, but that was before too.

Speaker 1:

Would you mind explaining to us the difference and also the similarities to the before now situation?

Speaker 2:

Okay, so currently I'm in something where they're not sure why they have to pay me, but I'm explaining to them this is these documents. Who's prepared, like, how do you think this happens? Right, I'm facilitating this for you, and so they have an issue with it. So they're fighting it, but ultimately, the deal's got to get done. So it's just reiterating that. So there's that, right.

Speaker 1:

Now this is a situation that they've already signed the seller's rep, or the buyer's rep, et cetera and now they're thinking back on it.

Speaker 2:

Because they don't like the net sheet.

Speaker 1:

There you go. I was going to say it.

Speaker 2:

Most of these things came in way because they agreed to it up front and then saw what they were getting back. Then they saw whole transaction. So on the other side of it, it was more for me I experienced a lot of well so-and-so. Realtor said they'll give me 1% So-and-so, you know, and so I showed him the house. I've gone back and looked up the house and they bought the same house that I procured. But I'm not that agent that's going to go send them the form and get angry. I'm like you know just go.

Speaker 1:

It's because you know and believe in your worth. Yeah, If you guys want to try your luck with a cheaper agent, you get what you pay for.

Speaker 2:

Right and I just believe, like you know, things happen for a reason. It's karma. Whatever I'm like I know I showed you that house, I know I helped you procure that house, but they'll, can't you know. They're like no, we're going to stop looking. And then I go back and look and they're like they're under contract, so it's happened twice Once when I first started.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And a builder rep called me and was like I know that you were here with them, but like do you think you could just, you know, be okay?

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's the worst.

Speaker 2:

I felt so. Oh, that's the worst I felt naive, double-crossed, betrayed like all the things. Wait, I was like seriously dude.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I get it, that can be very, very frustrating. That can be very, very frustrating, but I think the idea that you're promoting right now is the changes in the NAR ruling, the whole reason for the lawsuit and everything else. The same concept was already happening Right Before all this stuff. You're always going to have somebody that's willing to do it cheaper, and all you can do is continue to provide your worth, articulate your worth and then go out and show your worth.

Speaker 2:

For sure, and there's no way that you would have continued to grow your business had you not been able to show the worth in that regard and in both situations, typically those people that do that because they know there was no good reason for it other than greed. They don't want to look you in the eye, they're just silent, radio silent, and I'm like, yeah, you feel bad because you know it's wrong. And where else can you go to work someone's work and say I think we should only pay you this much? How about that? You're right, that's so annoying.

Speaker 1:

You are right, and we've brought it up a couple of times on here, but I'm going to reiterate it, because the idea of getting something, getting the whole enchilada for less, it's like don't we go to school, become the expert so that we can charge what we're worth, instead of let's go be the expert so that we can be the cheapest?

Speaker 2:

Right, that doesn't make sense. That doesn't align with who I am.

Speaker 1:

I love that even more.

Speaker 2:

I'm really not. It's not, and so I just like I said, it's a marathon, so those are not my people. And I've had people that have had situations like that. And guess what, they came back and were like Denise, we need your help. Yes, yes, sure you do.

Speaker 1:

And it is. I've had customers do the same thing on the lending side, obviously always willing to take them back. Yeah, but it is on my terms. Like guys, you understand why you left, right, okay.

Speaker 2:

See, I don't even do that, I absolutely do. I'm always, just like you obviously know what you did Well yes, come over here, I'll help you.

Speaker 1:

I let it be known only because, at this point, you can't lose something you never had.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So, in my opinion and again it's just my opinion these folks decided to think that they knew best, so they left, tried their best and it didn't work out. So now would you like to try it the way that it will work out? Because, being the expert, I'm going to show you not just one ways but multiple ways. Then I'm going to give my expertise on which one you should pick, but I will get it to the finish line, the way that you intended in your goals and aligning those.

Speaker 2:

So I feel like it's kind of I agree with you, but you're on the buyer side, right.

Speaker 1:

But on the listing side.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes it's just a dire need.

Speaker 1:

And I'm like.

Speaker 2:

I get it.

Speaker 1:

You don't have time to do that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, because I know I get why they left right and then they come back and they couldn't accomplish it and I'm like I understand their dire need. But the numbers are the numbers, right, and it is what it is. The buyers it's just like they're approved or they're not, and then they get to make the choice. But these people are like looking at a number and thinking if I could just make this much more you know, you're right and we don't know their whole financial situation.

Speaker 1:

That. In addition and I'm going to ask you this totally random Is it difficult, since you're dealing with more listings to, especially in the last several years, to bring people down to earth on what they perceive their value is based on emotions and what the memories they've had and what they've added to the property, as compared to what the comps show based on square footage period?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and sometimes even the comps right now because of the way the market is changing. Yes, we can put it at that, but the market's not substantiating that right now. Realistically, you might end up right around here and so I always do that Like this is the number that Susie sold, but that was like six months ago, because that's usually the comp pool and then if it's a difficult neighborhood, sometimes I have to pull further back right, yes.

Speaker 2:

So we have those conversations and I've been bringing people back down to earth and telling them like we saw that hype right, we saw the hype and if you didn't cash out, we saw that hype right. We saw the hype and if you didn't cash out, unfortunately we're scaling back. But is it unfortunate? It's going to align with everything else in our economy and people were trying to make so much money off of homes, when it's a home and yes, it's an asset, but the margin was so ridiculous at that point we can't sustain that. That's not realistic.

Speaker 1:

It's not sustainable.

Speaker 2:

You're on the money. And so I say that over and over again and I tell them look at my equity. Like I give them my example. This is what it was and this is what it is now. Do I want that? Yeah, if I can get it, I will fight for it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not soft, We'll fight. But realistically, this is where you might end up with closing costs and helping or whatever. So bring them back down and they'll always say let's start here.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, always.

Speaker 2:

And we'll do the open houses and then, if that doesn't work, then we'll come back here.

Speaker 1:

Yes, promise Exactly, press hard. And I think what a lot of folks or sellers out there are not taking into consideration is the fact that you're not necessarily selling a home price, home value. You're selling a payment, because most of the people in our market and I'm talking about San Antonio in general, and this probably goes with the rest of the United States they're not paying cash, so you're not really selling the value. You're selling what their potential payment is going to be, right, so that $300,000, $400,000 home is no longer $2,000 a month. It's now $3,000, $4,000 a month, right?

Speaker 2:

They're not taking that into consideration when they're pricing, and I totally get and they're also not taking it into consideration when they do the new build and their taxes increase. That's so true, that's huge. I've had people come back and say Shame on the lender.

Speaker 1:

Shame on the lender, and what I mean by that is when you are buying a new construction home, you have the ability to set the taxes, the escrow, the impound up on improved or unimproved on the value. When you're doing a new construction, you typically estimate it at about 90% of what the purchase price is. Taking that by the tax rate, you can add the homestead to it if you'd like. But there are a lot of folks out there that are like let's make the cash to close low and let's make the payment low. Are you okay with that? Yes, okay, great, keep in mind it's going to go up next year because it's going to actually be assessed. The real value is going to show. That's going to be added to your mortgage payment, yep, and those are some of the listings that have come to me.

Speaker 1:

I didn't sell them. The house, there you go, you're fixing it, you're fixing the situation. That's true. Yeah, so now we can talk about kind of the current situation and what is going on in our market today. Okay, I can tell you from my side of the spectrum it's tough. It's tough. I feel like I'm only working with those that have to move and coming from other states, or those that could not buy before, in the heyday, so to speak. So they're difficult deals. They're down payment assistance there's I need to fix my credit first. I did not claim my taxes on my self-employment the last year Things of that. We're doing bank statement loans. We're doing all kinds of off the wall products that we really never had to use before because there was plenty of the other business. Um, and in regards to the listings, there's plenty of listings going live. I know, you know, um, I just don't see them flying off the shelves as quickly as they were.

Speaker 2:

Right, we need those buyers agents to kind of go back into the pre-owned yes, it's true stuff there, it's true, and there's upgrades that people put in. You know, and you're going to get it for basically what the builder's giving. Yep, just simple, nothing in it.

Speaker 1:

In addition, there is equity in the property as opposed to the. I don't want to say it's a fake number, but the number that the new construction home brings is only based on the comps that the builder provides. So, in all honesty, you don't know exactly what that value is until the first person decides to sell their home. That's in that community, correct, you know.

Speaker 2:

And it takes a while is what I'm seeing when I'm pulling those comps. It's like nope, actually the builder ate the equity when he sold it to you. There you go, sorry but it's true.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I almost have you say it again. So I've got some stats that we can pull up.

Speaker 2:

Here Was that Super Mario? That was my new ringtone, that's so cool.

Speaker 1:

I just downloaded that last night. Actually it's the one up like when he hits it. Okay, so we're right here, looking at this quick article that came out on the 23rd it's some data, or at least an article about September, and it says September, homes sales dropped to the lowest since 2010. And 2010 was pretty low, matter of fact. If we can, let's look at historic home sales in the US chart. Pretty sure I can find something.

Speaker 1:

Home sales, medium price no. Home seller profits profits goodness gracious, um. Home sales. Home sales, home starts oh well, no big deal, and we're going to go back to this. So the medium price and these are the key points to this article. It says the medium price of existing homes sold in September was 404,500. That was an increase of 3% year over year. Inventory rose one and a half percent month to month to 1.3 million homes and I mean we don't have to read this whole thing, but I want to get kind of a roundabout says sales of the previous owned homes fell 1% in September compared to August to a seasonally adjusted annualized rate of 3.84 million units, the slowest pace since October of 2010,. According to the National Association of Realtors, sales were 3.5% lower than in September of 2023. Sales fell in three out of the four US regions, with just the West region seeing a gain.

Speaker 2:

So the West is still seeing a gain.

Speaker 1:

They're still seeing a gain. They're still seeing a gain and the odd thing that I think people are hesitant about and also not really understanding or knowing how to compute the concept but we're seeing more homes hit the market. Property values are still rising, as are interest rates. Right, and you'll see a lot of things on social media from other lenders that are like rates are lower. Everybody jump back in when really they're not lower. They've dropped a tiny bit, but then they increased even higher before that, and that's intended. We've got to slow down inflation, et cetera. That's really the only thing that you can. But what are your thoughts to this? I mean, why are home sales slower? Are people not putting in the work that they should be? Are buyer sentiment low? What do you think?

Speaker 2:

It's the buyer sentiment, in my opinion. I feel like the next cycle of buyers saw what happened and they're like what the hell? Yeah, Right, yeah. And they've also seen people make the mistake that whatever their purchase was someone they know, whatever, and so they want to capitalize on the best case scenario.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I'm having these conversations with some of my younger buyers.

Speaker 1:

Very good, yeah. Now what are those conversations like? I mean, what that they?

Speaker 2:

are telling me their thought process and it's the ideal situation and it's not ideal, right? But you're renting for X amount and how long do you intend to do that? But not only that, but I'm having the real conversation, like you're telling me you have this cash and it, as we know, we're going to spend it, so you better spend it on the house. Like, why are we waiting? And, um, I think that my, my buyers are. I'm relatable to them because they see me as young too, even though I'm typically older than them. You're pretty young, kind of. I love that Young-ish, young-ish. Me too. Me too, guys, I had the gray.

Speaker 1:

Love that Young-ish, young-ish. Me too, me too. Guys, I had the gray.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, no. So I just tell them like it was. For me it was the scariest thing, it was during COVID, but I don't regret it and it kind of makes you grow up, but in a good way. Where you're like this is the most important thing, because so many good things happen again around your home. You are more intentional. It's not like you're just living in somebody's house. This is memory making, this is intent. So I have the deeper conversations of like. Let's not like, say well, because they'll talk themselves out of it quick.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I bring, like their thought process of the future to the forefront, because time passes and you're going to spend the money. That's right passes and you're going to spend the money.

Speaker 1:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

And then you're going to be like man. I wish I would have done it and I hear it all the time, even from older people, and it breaks my heart. I'm like it's happening.

Speaker 1:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

Let's make it happen for you. You know, don't wait, because you're just going to kick yourself later.

Speaker 1:

It's true. I mean, there's a lot of folks that don't get the concept because, let's face it, homes are not the same price as they were before. They're not the same payment that they were before Getting you to under you as the buyer, as the potential buyer, to understand that it's time to now sacrifice a little bit. Either you do buy that home that you want and bite the bullet for the higher payment.

Speaker 2:

Or sometimes it's not buying that one yet.

Speaker 1:

And that's okay, and that is kind of what I want to bring home is a lot of folks are not willing to sacrifice, meaning I'm either going to give up this extra stuff that I'm doing to afford that house, or I'm going to drop my price down to where I can afford it, so that at least I'm gaining equity. I'm doing to afford that house, or I'm going to drop my price down to where I can afford it so that at least I'm gaining equity. I'm not paying somebody else's rent, I'm not throwing away my money and at a certain point because time, as you said, it will continue.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You'll be able to tap into it, sell it, leverage it.

Speaker 2:

And I lead by example, Like I use my situation as an experience too, Like I've had people have the audacity to say who is your builder? And then they're like you know, in our industry and private talks are like, oh, you bought that and I'm like yes, I bought it because it made sense at that time, that's right.

Speaker 2:

I'm, you know, a young family and it's going to be my rental. So I'm not ashamed to say that and it's a good builder and it's a great house. But that's my point, and I use myself again as an example. This is going to be my rental, and now we have another rental and then we're going to get the big, big house. But everything takes time, it's not? It's true, some people do go all in and we could have, but that wasn't my plan and that doesn't have to be your plan, and usually it sounds like that's their plan, but they're kind of scared of it. So it's like, well, start here then.

Speaker 1:

Right Start somewhere, absolutely Right. I do agree with that. The idea behind what folks are and it's really only the realtors that I see talking about it, the builders and oh, they're not a good builder. Okay, why? Because their commission was low that month.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's not that builder.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

It's still a good builder, it's just not like-.

Speaker 1:

Funny how we all know what builder we're talking about without actually saying the L word. It's not that one, it's like a common thing.

Speaker 2:

It's weird. I don't have a problem with them I have plenty of sales reps that are friends that work for them. They work really hard. I have friends since I started and I used to sell them before they had a bad rep.

Speaker 1:

Put it this way they wouldn't be a publicly traded company if they were doing something wrong.

Speaker 2:

No, seriously Like I was looking into one of those in Miami because that's like a goal, like I want to have a beach out and so down there that's their Mecca, right?

Speaker 1:

Yes, have you seen what the insurance is though?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was like can we just like, not insured, who cares? Let's just live great for the years before it gets blown away. That's right, that's awesome, it'll be worth it. I'm just kidding, don't take that advice.

Speaker 1:

Just kidding Kinda Kinda. Sometimes you want to, you know so my wife does insurance also, okay, and it's been a hell of a ride with insurance too. Everything is going up.

Speaker 2:

But they're doing well.

Speaker 1:

Kinda sorta yeah, I mean yes when they're able to sell the policy. You know a lot of situations. It's like okay, this house now deems you to have a $3,000 a year policy, whereas before it was only $1,500. So you've doubled the insurance and that borrower that qualified before buying this. They don't qualify anymore, so it's you're running into all of these issues that are outside of their control.

Speaker 2:

I've been curious to see what's going to happen with that. Is there going to be like just the way they came in regulated us. Are they going to go in and regulate that?

Speaker 1:

I would think so.

Speaker 2:

I'm interested to see Same here, because they did it to you guys, absolutely, they did it to us. I'm like y'all are next.

Speaker 1:

That's true. And with you guys, you guys haven't really seen any lawsuits after the lawsuit. I should say With us it was like okay, they regulated it, then they regulated it again and then they went after the culprits in our industry.

Speaker 2:

I think they did a little bit of that. Yeah, they did Okay, yeah, but it was from the top, where the main brokers are like, don't be talking about local handling it. So I think that that stuff that's actually happening is it's still happening. Not so much, but it happened and it was taken care of, but they still went after. Makes sense, yeah it does make sense, but there wasn't a whole lot of mischief in my opinion, the way it was in yours.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, opinion the way it was in yours? Yeah, no, you're right, you are right. I will attest I was not in the industry back then, y'all.

Speaker 2:

There was some shady shit.

Speaker 1:

There was a lot of shady shit going on and it is the reason and I repeat this over and over, because I want people to understand that the crash was not necessarily a real estate crash. It was a fraud crash. Correct, there was a lot of fraud. There were a lot of fraud. There were a lot of folks that were in homes, buying multiple homes, that, frankly, should not have been able to Right and it spoiled it for the rest of the bunch.

Speaker 2:

But imagine the people that capitalized on that and then like did well, my parents.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. They couldn't afford the house that they built and still live into this day.

Speaker 1:

They did an 80-20 loan I always think about the California people who do that, see, and I think that California plays by a little bit of a different rule if not different rules, then different mindset from the buyer, because you've got more people that are combining their income to purchase that home, whereas in San Antonio purchase that home, whereas in San Antonio it's very rare that you see grandma, mom, dad living in the same household and using their income. California, absolutely, because you've got the prices of the homes.

Speaker 2:

Are you thinking Huntington? I'm thinking Huntington Beach. You're thinking like.

Speaker 1:

I'm thinking all of it, to be honest.

Speaker 2:

So it's like multi-generational living.

Speaker 1:

At least to get the home. At least to get the home. Okay, at least to get the home. I wonder if we've got stats on that, let's see here.

Speaker 2:

That sounds. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd like to live with my mom, but that sounds like awful. If you are forced to, I live.

Speaker 1:

Like that's a different situation. I've been away from my mom and that's too close.

Speaker 2:

No, I bought my house across this neighborhood from my mom on purpose, okay.

Speaker 1:

Well, yes, it's a cheaper daycare. They do that. I've actually talked to some people in California and it's very common that you'll see two different couples going in just so they can live in a certain part of town Because it's so expensive.

Speaker 2:

California it's so nice though it might be worth it. I know people hate California, but I love going to Santa Monica and walking by the beach. If you lived somewhere where you had a beautiful scenery, it might be worth it. Yeah, Not that Texas doesn't, but I'm just like I live in the hills.

Speaker 1:

I've got nice scenery, but it's hot as hell.

Speaker 2:

It's dry and hot and I'm tired of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I totally get that. It's giving me two answers here. It says uh, precise data percentage. Okay, good, let's see here in california, approximately 14 of recent homes purchased are multi-generational. So 14 that that seems like a low number.

Speaker 2:

But I wonder how big they are Compare that to Texas.

Speaker 1:

Let's see if we are actually the culprits that are doing that.

Speaker 2:

I've had more buyer requests for that, to be honest with you recently. Look at that For a multi-generational type of home. Yep, I have.

Speaker 1:

And when we bought our home prior to this one, we bought it, built the casita and that was our intent to have one of the in-laws come and stay or whatnot. And it was just like you know, let's just keep going, let's just keep going, and we'll do this when they're ready, versus just sitting on it.

Speaker 2:

So you made it into a gym. They're not ready. This is my man cave.

Speaker 1:

I turned it into my man cave. Yes, that's funny man. I wish I would have had it, then we'd have a whole studio there. But yeah, what I found out in doing that is, if it is not attached to the house, it doesn't really add additional value, unless they count it as a shed or something like that yeah Well, you have to pull the permit, and then Correct.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm like it does.

Speaker 1:

I didn't do that.

Speaker 2:

Okay, See there you go there, you go. It's your realtor, I would tell you, call BCAD and then Damn it, Marcus Loffey.

Speaker 1:

You see Just kidding, but yeah, that's something that I think our market needs to maybe either be enlightened on, be educated on even more, and kind of the message that we've been spreading on this show is education educating these people, giving them a different perspective on.

Speaker 2:

I have something to say about it, please say it.

Speaker 1:

I agree with your chest. I agree, hit it with your chest.

Speaker 2:

I think we should definitely educate the consumer, but not so much so that it's all just there for them to grab and then we don't get to speak to them and it's like so-and-so said and it's a blurb right the reels. I think the education needs to come back into, like buyer consultations and Saturday buyer forums. Come in, talk to us. I love it, because then it's too easily accessible, the wrong message gets spread and then you don't necessarily get the client. That's very true, the goal, let's be real.

Speaker 2:

Yes, you are correct, educating them enough to know. You know, she knows what she's talking about. Let me call her, but maybe not everything, guys.

Speaker 1:

Intentionally. I like that from the beginning. You mentioned you do things intentionally Right and it kind of goes hand in hand with what you just said. It's not just spray all this stuff out there.

Speaker 2:

No, because then they, you know, they assume on certain parts and not everything, it's misinformation if they just not get the full detail. And we can't possibly do that unless we're sitting in front of them.

Speaker 1:

I agree. You know, what I'm not seeing a lot of these days is home buyer education classes.

Speaker 2:

I'm doing one, are you? Yeah, I sent an invitation out.

Speaker 1:

Let them know.

Speaker 2:

Okay, well, I sent an invitation out, we're picking a date, Okay, and so I want to do one in December. I've never done one before. Okay, I kind of just had a bunch of buyers in the beginning and now I've been doing listings. But I want to get back in front of them and do my part on the education, because I complain about it, yes, you know, and I'm like, okay, well, I need to go over there, I love that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, and that's I used to do a lot of classes both for realtors, buyers directly. Our business that we've built here is, I will say, maybe 50% consumer direct. We built reviewmymortgagecom. Leads come in from folks that are looking to educate themselves on the different types of programs that are out there in their area, based on their situation.

Speaker 2:

Those are the kind of buyers I love, though.

Speaker 1:

It's true.

Speaker 2:

Because they know and they-.

Speaker 1:

Or at least they want to know.

Speaker 2:

Well, they want to know, They've informed themselves enough to know that when they speak to me and the topics that I'm speaking to I'm not they're like okay, she, you know, and that could be any other agent too, anyone that's educating themselves, that educated buyer is going to pick you. Because they're like okay, this person is aligning with. I literally had clients say that's exactly what I was you know, and so then you mesh well and you pick up the buyer, absolutely so.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely those are my favorite buyers.

Speaker 2:

That's pretty cool yeah.

Speaker 1:

If you don't have a lending partner, let me know if you do. I totally understand. I'm not going to injet myself in that, but I do like to present, I do like to educate. I'm not the most orthodox, as you can tell, but they get the point across and I think it's the high EQ that I have that allows me to relate to the people that are in the crowd, that are different backgrounds, right? Kind of how San Antonio is a big melting pot. It really is. You're not going to get all Mexican, all black, all white. We're everything. Matter of fact. Chances are it's white, black, hispanic. What have you that made these people? Right, you know it's interracial, yeah for sure, right. Well, denise, we've talked about a lot of things here. We've talked about your had as a realtor in this industry, and it can be in the past, today, anything like that, because I always want to give the listeners out there something that they can take back to go. You know what I can relate to that.

Speaker 2:

My struggle is always feeling like I'm never doing enough, when I know that I am, like I don't have enough time in the day, but just, and that comes from shutting out the noise and being aware of what you're intentionally doing every day and holding yourself accountable, because if you, you know I like to write stuff down, I'm old school same and then I'll scratch it off.

Speaker 1:

I mean?

Speaker 2:

I mean pages and pages. So I always hope that nobody ever finds my thing, because they're going to be like this person is really weird, that's awesome. I'm like whenever I take it somewhere, I'm like don't forget it, because someone's going to find it. That's funny, but anyway, that's my struggle is like just being nice to myself and saying you are doing enough, and this is why Look at what you've accomplished.

Speaker 1:

I love that.

Speaker 2:

So because when you don't for me I freeze, and then you don't do anything, right, right so.

Speaker 1:

Analysis by paralysis. Yeah, I think that. Yep, it's a real thing.

Speaker 2:

And it's a battle Like you've always got to be like on top of it.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely no, we're not doing that, yes, that was a good struggle. Now one more question to finish it up Is there any advice that you would give out there to either buyers, other realtors, lenders, anybody?

Speaker 2:

I think that taking a good approach to being emotionally intelligent and reading your audience is important. And just for buyers they need to have questions too is what their expectations should be for a real estate agent, because there's so many times they're like I didn't know and I'm like what did you ask them? What was the criteria before you hired them? So expectations for that is important for the buyers. That's really the thing. And I think sellers most sellers know when a seller doesn't have expectations, I'm worried. If I want the client Right.

Speaker 2:

Because I'm like how are we going to handle this? You know, I'm like, you know, so that's the thing.

Speaker 1:

It's tough to communicate in that aspect because it's like you haven't given me much, so I'm just going to guess on this stuff.

Speaker 2:

And I don't like to do that. I want my seller to tell me, like this is what we're doing or this is how I'd like it, or, if they're not delivering, that I ask the questions and write it down so that I'm making sure that when I give it back to you, it's delivered the way you asked for it.

Speaker 1:

Spoken like a true real estate expert. Denise, I want to thank you for joining us today. First podcast no, oh well. Shoot oh well.

Speaker 2:

I've only done.

Speaker 1:

I did JJ Garena's when I first started JJ's solid man.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I never watched it. I don't watch them because I don't like seeing myself, and it's just weird to hear your own voice. This is going everywhere, so you won't be able to miss it. I've seen your advertising. You're great at that and I did the Leto show the other morning, so that was fun, very cool.

Speaker 1:

Well, um, ladies and gentlemen, those, they, them, all of you out there listening, I hope you got something from this. I think, uh, one of the biggest messages that I heard within this key factor we'll call it um is believe in your own worth. Make sure that you're not jeopardizing your worth for something else that's easy or simple, Um, because, in the end, that easy or simple thing could either end up hurting your career or, worse, ruining your career. Again, I want to thank you, Denise, for joining me on this discussion and those of you out there.

Speaker 1:

hope you're getting something out of this. If you are, make sure to like, subscribe, share with a friend. You never know who's going to be listening or who needs this, until the next one. We will catch you later. Bye.

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Mark Jones

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