%20(2).jpg)
Key Factors RealEstateAF
Educational Podcast for Consumers, Mortgage & Real Estate Industry Professionals. We'll Talk About It All! Key Factors podcast, powered by https://ReviewMyMortgage.com . Your Host Mark Jones invites Industry Pros to help uncover & educate on the key factors of various topics. There’s something for everyone so let us be your guides and get educated. Subscribe & Follow on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Facebook, Instagram, & all other podcasting platforms. Host : Mark A Jones Founder of ReviewMyMortgage.comProducing Branch MangerSr. Loan Officer. NMLS ID# 513437NMLS Consumer Access: http://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org/Powered by ReviewMyMortgage.com
Key Factors RealEstateAF
Lender Life & Loving It | New Construction & Staying Busy in a Down Market
Navigating Mortgage Complexities & Builder Market Insights
Discover mortgage tips, industry insights, and builder strategies from veteran loan officer Lisa Alonso. Learn how today's loan market, new construction trends, and personal financial strategies affect your journey to homeownership.
Podcast Description: In this episode of Key Factors Podcast: Real Estate AF, host Mark Jones is joined by veteran loan officer Lisa Alonso to break down the real side of mortgages. They discuss the advantages and hurdles of working with builders, navigating loan guidelines, and the hidden factors in today's mortgage landscape. Tune in to uncover critical insights into VA loans, the power of forward commitments, and how new construction pricing impacts home affordability. Whether you’re a first-time buyer or industry pro, this conversation brings transparency to the process and provides valuable advice for securing your financial future.
Key Factors Podcast is Powered by ReviewMyMortgage.com
Host: Mark Jones | Sr. Loan Officer | NMLS# 513437
If you would like to work with Mark on your next home purchase or as a partner visit iThink Mortgage.
Wow, yeah, where did you get?
Speaker 2:that. So people are wondering why? Well, how is it that they can do this low rate and you guys can't? Well, we don't have the extra money to play with behind the scenes to increase the sales price and give you this rate.
Speaker 1:And they hide that in the closing documents.
Speaker 2:They can't even put it in the closing document, but we would have to do, we would have. The most we can typically do is two points, unless the seller's paying, etc. Etc.
Speaker 1:So when, when, a when a builder owns a mortgage company, they can do a forward commitment. Absolutely, they're doing yep, and that forward commitment is pre-furnished.
Speaker 2:You know exactly what you're talking about. Yes, that's exactly the right step. We're recording the behind the scenes and then we'll go.
Speaker 2:Behind the scenes. We like a raw intro, like out of nowhere. Matter of fact, I'm ready to start and if you are ready, I am ready. All right, we're ready and welcome back to another episode of Key Factors Podcast Real Estate AF, where the AF stands for and finance, and I'm your host, mark Jones, and we're powered by ReviewMyMortgagecom, the largest index of mortgage programs in the nation, and today I am joined with a veteran loan officer branch manager in San Antonio that I've been friends with for many years, and I'm looking forward to hearing her insight on the topic that we have today. So, without further ado, I would like to introduce Lisa Alonzo how you doing.
Speaker 1:Hey, I just want to be comfortable for two seconds. I love it. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here. Okay, I'm glad to be here. I'm a little shy, but it'll.
Speaker 2:First podcast right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:It'll go off without a hitch, guaranteed Okay, perfect, okay. So for our viewers, our listeners out there, we're now up to 12,300 and some odd subscribers on YouTube. We've got plenty more on Spotify and Apple Podcast. They're tuning in and I believe it's because we continue to bring them experts that want to be transparent and give them real information, real perspective, without bias and trying to sell them something, and that's we were talking just before this. You wish that there were more lenders that you could have a melting pot with, and well, that's what we're creating here.
Speaker 1:I like that. I think it's important that we do that. I think I just recently posted on my Facebook about that. I love to see how realtors are constantly together in things and they're just always like patting each other on the back, and lenders should do that.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:There's enough business for everyone, and I feel like we should just all commune together as lenders.
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny that you say there's enough business for everyone, and that brings up another topic that we can talk about here in a bit. But before we dive into any of our discussions today, I want the folks out there listening to know who they're listening to. So, lisa, tell us about yourself. Let's start in the beginning. How long have you been in the mortgage business? How'd you get in? Why'd you choose this industry, this crazy world called mortgage?
Speaker 1:I'm going to try to not talk too long about it, you're good. So I started. I actually lived in. I'm from California but moved to Texas, san Antonio, in my teens so I graduated from Holmes High School Holmes go Huskies I know my parents did too 1987.
Speaker 2:No shit, my parents were 85. Okay, I think 85.
Speaker 1:It was rough school. It was rough, oh yeah. And coming from California, I came from Laguna Niguel, you know I was definitely went from here to you know where am I. So then I moved back to California after high school and attended college. There Now, I just did community college, sure, and I wanted to get into just working doing anything.
Speaker 1:So back then you would go to the unemployment office and they sent me to a mortgage company, really, to be a receptionist, okay. So I said, sure, I'll do that. And so I went to this mortgage company and it was actually a mortgage broker called Subrose Mortgage and they had been just purchased by a young guy. Okay, he was like 20 years old and, funny enough, I didn't know this until a few years later. But he had purchased the company because he had gotten in trouble with the law for selling drugs. So, yeah, I didn't know this, but I took the job as a receptionist and from that point is where I learned how to you know, from the bottom up I assisted the processor, so I used to order the verifications. This is back in 1989.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, we're still like semi-setup positions in many companies that do your order outs, your title work, your appraisals Go ahead.
Speaker 1:But back then, you know, we didn't have computers, we had the phone where you hit the button and hello, you know. So it was so different. And our fax machines still had that really thin. Oh yeah, when we ordered a credit report it would come through that fax holy cow, we did not know that that paper would be transparent like it would.
Speaker 1:We didn't know that back, wow. So, um, and they didn't have credit scores. Um, you know, when we did fha and va loans, we would have to call up for the case number, so we learned about all of that. Um, and I, working for a broker, you know we would have to call up for the case number, so we learned about all of that. And working for a broker, you know we used to have to copy and I had one of those copy machines where each copy would be like the three the yellow, pink and the white.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, those were my verifications when I typed them without a computer, so you know you had to use your whiteout. So I mean I come back from way way back then and it was fun because I learned from then to now. It's so different. I know how to complete a good faith without a computer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it was fun, it was learning, and I became a processor. Okay, so from processing I think I did that for eight years I went to go work for a mortgage banker and I then was sponsored to become an underwriter and I was one file away from getting my DE and I decided at that point to become a loan officer. So that was 1997. And in 1997 is also when they came up with credit scores.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. They started using DU and they started doing all of that Getting automated, using the computers to leverage, to hopefully streamline and make things more efficient. We never thought it would work.
Speaker 1:You know, what's really crazy is when that happened. When we started using DU, we really only did what DU said, so, like I never got a verification, I was one of those LOs where, if the processor wanted anything, I would say, no, you get your VOE, get your VOD, that's all we're using.
Speaker 2:I'm going by what the findings say.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's. All I needed was a VOE and a VOD.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute, you guys don't do that now.
Speaker 1:Nope, I get pay stubs. I try not to even get a VOE if I don't need it. I do whatever the DU says, still, because that's where I'm from. But nowadays, with loans being so much more difficult, you know, back then there wasn't a problem with fraud. Fraud was because of back then.
Speaker 2:That's so true.
Speaker 1:There was so much fraud. So now, because of all the things that have gone on now we have to verify things so much Like everything's verified over and over and over. We didn't do that back then, absolutely, we verified it once.
Speaker 2:And I want to pause just for a moment so that I can explain to the listeners, because there's many out listening that don't participate in the mortgage side of things that are wondering okay, what is DU? Why is she referencing it? Du is desktop underwriter and there's another one loan prospector. Essentially, this is the automated system that we, as lenders, run our loans, the scenario that the borrower gives us into the system. The system spits out findings that either say approve eligible, refer eligible, refer ineligible. There's multiple different factors, but within these findings there's one to sometimes 50 conditions. Those conditions are what we use to clear, to sell that loan off to the investor and based on those conditions itself, I mean you either have a loan or you don't. Right, you can still do what's considered a downgrade or a manual underwrite, but you'll always want to strive for that automated approval so you can have the insurance of that system backing you with this loan. But go ahead, continue.
Speaker 1:That's good. I love that. You're very detailed. So learning, you know, going through that process from 89 all the way to now, and my journey from being a loan officer from 1997 to current, and my journey from being a loan officer from 1997 to current, you know it's been a fun journey. But you know programs, everything changes so often, it's true. I mean it does matter how long you've been doing it, simply for the experience. For sure, yes, but you have to continue to learn.
Speaker 2:I agree, because programs consistently change. Well and, like they say, the only thing that is consistent in our industry is change. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Everything's changing. All the time. The programs change the interest rates. I mean back then, when I first started, fixed interest rates were in the 12s and 13s. Those were fixed rates and so we used adjustable rate mortgages all the time. We used graduated payment mortgages. We used interest only.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know, because in California prices were extremely high.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And we used negative interest loans, which you can't do anymore. Right, we just did a completely different type of loan than we do today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Now question for you Do you think that it is better that we're doing it the way that we are now or in the past, or would it be better to have kind of a composite of the two?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't think we can do it better than we did in the past at all. I think that what we're doing now is good because we have to do those things, and what I mean by that is now we have non-QM Correct, which before was hard money.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think the non-QM is a bit better than that. I think that all the policies that are in place are better for the client.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:Because those policies are in place, because there was so much fraud, it was so easy for people to give us fake pay stubs and fake bank statements and just do things they shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:And all those things are why people have to go through what they're going through today. That's right. So I do think today's policies are better. I recently asked my secondary marketing VP why we don't have ARM interest rates and he said well, because of the two-year bond. He said the difference is so minimal that there's just no reason to use ARM. So the ARM interest rate is going to come back when those interest rates go up.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So there's a huge difference between the two.
Speaker 2:In that instance they should still provide you with it. But I do agree that it is hard, Like, for example, I do construction loans with Titan Factory, brand new from the factory concept manufactured, and in those cases the one time close was very hard to keep up with. In regards to the hedge, Its rates are changing so quickly right now that it's like, OK, how do we hedge this if it's going to be a short-term bet that doesn't end up panning out? Isn't it interest only For the first part of it, correct? But you're actually locking in the final rate up front for the one time right.
Speaker 2:Yes, you are. So I had to switch all of this stuff to a two-time and learn a brand new process of going about it. And luckily it worked out for all the customers that had to go through that because sure enough, rates did come down. So they're 8% on their interest only construction piece Three months later when the home is delivered. Now we can go do their permanent loan and lock them at 6.875, seven and a quarter, something like that, versus them being stuck with what they had and have to wait six payments minimum to refinance to get it lowered.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't like the refinance. I mean, I'm not a big refinance person.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I don't believe in starting the clock over unless you have a really good reason to do that A good reason.
Speaker 2:I like that. I go about it the same way, and you and I both, I believe are going to be different than most loan officers on the street because we consider ourselves experts. I, on the street, because we consider ourselves experts, I'm not going to sit here and refinance you just to make a paycheck when, in three months from now, your grandpa, your dad, somebody's going to look at your mortgage and go what the hell, were they thinking. Why did you do that Right?
Speaker 1:No, I look at everybody like they are a part of my family and because I really I feel like and this is I'm getting a little spiritual, but I do feel like God brings those people to me Like I feel like every client I have is with me for a reason, yeah, and so I treat them like that. I treat them, you know, I help them as best I can. I hate to say no. That is my biggest issue in my life is saying no, especially with loans, because I feel like it's more like this is how you can do it, rather than I can't do it at all.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right, and I believe that the newer generation of loan officers almost believe that it is a yes or a no when it comes to a borrower. But it's not at all. It is no. Even the yes is not a yes. It's a yes, but this is your options yes or term. Yes, you have to still do these things. That yes. And then your term yes, you have to still do these. That's correct. And then the no aspect. I don't think it's ever a no. It's not right now, but you can fix this, this and this Now. Mind you, there are some customers that are late on items right now in the 400 scores that I will tell them. The credit repair that's needed is out of the scope of my expertise and I can't help you pay your bills on time, Like there's just that one thing that you at least have to show the responsibility that you applied for a mortgage knowing damn well that you're late on your payments right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you gotta pay your bills, that's exactly right. Nobody's gonna lend you the biggest loan of your life if you're not currently paying a $50 payment.
Speaker 2:I mean it makes sense. It's got to make sense. That's a great little clip right there that the AI system is going to pick up and you can have.
Speaker 2:That's perfect and I agree 100% with that. So you let's go back to you. In your journey as a lender During the I guess last we'll call it six years or so, we went through a crazy uproar of loans. It was like holy cow more loans than we know what to do with. And then, all of a sudden, the rug was pulled out from under us. And you mentioned that there's plenty of loans to go around. I believe that's true as well, but many out there are going. Well, what the hell is she talking about? How is that even possible if we're not doing loans? What is your response to someone like that?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean honestly, if I go back to when I first started being a loan officer, Nobody taught me how to sell myself. I was a processor. I knew how to work a deal.
Speaker 1:That's right I didn't know how to go out and say please give me business. I didn't know how to do that and I was like, how do I do it? So I still have never done that. Really, I don't do that. I build relationships just with friendships, and so I can honestly tell somebody. When I first started, I started with a realtor that my boss didn't want to work with. So this realtor used to come into our office every day and have coffee and he was just a nuisance, I guess, to my manager and I didn't have any business because I was just beginning with him as a loan officer. And he said hey, lisa, I'm going to introduce you to Jose and we start working with him. I'm like, okay. So Jose came to my office every morning with his coffee and I said, okay, jose, let's get this going. And I became, of course, a friend to him and his first deal I did with him was a $50,000 deal, okay, and this was back in 1998. Yeah, right around there, and that's kind of a good size loan back then?
Speaker 2:No, it was still pretty tiny, and couldn't you guys make like three, four, five, six points, as much as?
Speaker 1:you wanted. I didn't have to have a license back then I could make whatever I wanted. But here's the key. So the listing agent calls me at closing and she says is this Lisa? And I said yes. And she said are you really giving this client this interest rate? And I said yes, I am. And she says, wow, you're not making any money. That's what she told me. And I said, oh, it's not about that. I told her it's not about that, it's about the client, it's not about me, it's about them. And she said, wow, I'm going to start working with you. And that realtor I found out she worked for Remax and she was a top dog realtor. Like, she was closing lots of deals. So my $50,000 deal. I inherited now 300, $400,000 loans and she introduced me to all of her friends.
Speaker 2:Do I know this person?
Speaker 1:This was in Tucson, Arizona. Oh, okay, Gotcha, Her name was Mary Frances. Okay, Shout out Mary Frances. And she sent me one of her nephews like a couple of years down the line after I'd been working with her and I told her her nephew. I said hey, I don't know her very well. Can you tell me a little bit about Mary Frances? And he goes, yeah, he goes. You know, she used to be a nun, yeah.
Speaker 2:Sister Mary Frances.
Speaker 1:Yes, do you know what movie?
Speaker 2:Yes, Do you know what movie that exact name is from? No Sister Act.
Speaker 1:Oh I.
Speaker 2:Sister Mary.
Speaker 1:Frances, that's hilarious. Going back to being spiritual, that's a sign right there too. Exactly.
Speaker 2:That's why I can witness. Yeah, back when Whoopi was kind of cool.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you, when I found out she was a nun and then he said, yeah, so she met a guy like she met her husband, and that's when she got out of the nunnery and then she had children.
Speaker 2:She had to divorce Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I realized then just how you know how that was where I was supposed to be.
Speaker 2:Like I realized that and that was super cool for me because I was like, wow, okay.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys. So she left the nunnery for a man and real estate and to have a family and to make some money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's. That's pretty cool. Um, so, as you, I guess in the last several years that we've gone through this ebb and flow of transactions being readily available.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me answer your question now. Okay, let me answer your question now. So, answering that question, the reason why I went all the way back then was because there's going to be times in our lives when we have a little bit of business and we have a ton of business, and because I've been doing this for so long, I've seen that, I've seen that up and down and you've got to prepare yourself for that. Yeah, as a loan officer, we're a straight commission, so we get to have all the money and then we get to have a little bit of money.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So we have to learn how to conform to that. Conform to that. Hopefully you're saving, you know. Hopefully you're investing it properly, hopefully you've gotten a couple of properties. I mean you, you have to work your business properly and I feel like that's in in 2018, that's when I secured a position with a builder and got all their second look loans. So I was doing so much business. So I mean I almost got divorced over doing so much business because I just I couldn't stop yeah, and again my problem not being able to say no it was even harder because I just had to make these loans work for these people.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:They'd already been denied, you know. So I had tons and tons of business and then, like you said, like down to like I remember doing 30 loans in one year, in a year, correct, it's like wait a minute From 300 to 30. Huge difference, but I still didn't skip a beat. I paid all my bills. I did everything on time because I wasn't living the 300 loan life.
Speaker 2:Correct. That's beautiful, and I'm glad that you did mention that, because many folks out there over leveraged, thinking that this was never going to end, and we know that never ending anything isn't true. Even what do they say? Never ending French fries or never ending this, it's just it's.
Speaker 1:You can only eat so much in 2007, 2008 as well, right, and it happened before that, so you know. So I've been a part of all of that already.
Speaker 2:That's a good question there, because you do have some perspective on that, seeing the difference in the 2008, 2009 crisis, where tons of lenders got out of the business. They couldn't hack it, they weren't really experts, they were going through the motions, whether they were waiters, teachers, jumping into our side of the industry and I can't say our just yet, because I wasn't even thinking about this industry in 2008,. To be honest, I was at Chase as a banker, a business banker. I would refer all the deals out to my loan officer in branch Nice. So the idea behind that and what we've gone through and are going through currently how do they compare in regards to all of it?
Speaker 1:Their reasons are completely different.
Speaker 2:For sure so completely different.
Speaker 1:So back then in 2007, again, great market, everything was going great. I worked for a builder then, okay, and at that time, you know, doing tons of loans, super busy, and we were all hearing that the market was going to change. And and what happened was when that change happened. I remember the builder got sold and the builder only wanted to keep two people out of all the LOs. They only wanted to keep two and they wanted to move everybody else out. And I convinced because me and another LO, we were asking will you stay? Yeah, and we said no, we didn't want to stay for just a paycheck. We were at that time working for the, just a paycheck. We were at that time working for the builder, we were actually earning a really good commission. So we were, it was awesome. But they were just going to give us like a you know a salary and we said, we said no.
Speaker 1:I told everybody hey, you guys can all be loan officers, you can all be retail, come with me. We all went to a mortgage company and starting over, and what we did was call on our past clients to do refinances and again, I probably closed 40 loans that year. Sure, so you know, you got to again up and down so I went from closing a ton of loans now just starting over again, starting with you know building relationships again, because I really didn't do that when I was, you know, with a builder, with you know building relationships again, because I really didn't do that when I was you know, with a builder and you just kind of you have to learn how to work that market.
Speaker 2:There you go. You just said it again, that one thing that you've mentioned probably three times thus far since the introduction of this question, which is work your business. And I don't believe that the newer generation of loan officers one have a book of business to work, and if they did, for example, I've got my book of business, I've got loan officers that are working my book of business to bring and uncover those opportunities. If there's no one to help train you, give you a little bit of confidence, a little bit of, maybe, role play and understanding what type of questions you should be asking, to get more information out of the borrower to then inject your recommendation that they can solve whatever problem with your solution. I don't think they're doing very well right now because, regardless and it goes hand in hand with your concept of there's plenty of business to go around there is, but you have to work it versus it just falling into your lap, like in 2020, 2021.
Speaker 2:People were buying because they were induced by the low rates, low payments, not the opportunity of owning a home and building equity. Meanwhile, myself and you, I would imagine that we never stop talking about building equity. Stop paying rent, let's get your credit fixed. Let's get you to a position to where, yeah, you may not have the lowest rate right now, but if you look up in two or three years, you've now got some equity built in.
Speaker 1:I think the difference between you and I, and maybe people who are getting out of the business, is there's just no passion. I think that you've got to have passion in what you do. And otherwise you're not really doing what you're meant to do, because in our business if you don't have the passion, then you're saying no a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. You aren't asking the questions Because, yeah, you know what I mean. You aren't asking the questions Because I was a second look lender for so long and I kind of just am. I just I can't help myself Same here.
Speaker 2:No, and I think that's a recession-proof business. Yes, if you know guidelines, you know how to speak to people, you know how to present the solutions in multiple different facets to that consumer that's sitting in front of you. That's already been told. No, maybe once, twice, three times. You can do just fine.
Speaker 1:And I think the biggest question with clients is and I get this a lot well, if two people have already said no, how can you do it, how can you do it? And I'm like, yeah, I know, I know, I know that's a very good question. And I tell them you know, I don't even know how to answer that. All I can say is I like to uncover.
Speaker 2:I'll answer it for you. I like to uncover the rocks. I'll answer it for you, right here, Not all lenders are created equal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you could have been to two lenders that were subpar to the abilities that you have, the experience that you have, the lack of the experience that you have, the lack of. I don't know what it is. It's like a lack of fear and actually, telling the borrower what they need to hear.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that's so true.
Speaker 2:Does that make?
Speaker 1:sense. Yes, there are so many loan officers out there that are afraid to tell the client the truth. That's right. I explain it like this. I say look you, this is not your situation, this is their situation. You are there to help them with their situation. So if their situation causes an obstacle for you as a loan officer, you immediately tell them because you only have $5 in your account, this isn't going to work. That doesn't mean it's a no. It means do you have a relative that can give you a gift? Do you have, because this is the only way we're going to be able to make this work, or because you've only been earning your overtime for three months?
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:I need to prove you've continued to earn it in the past, have you? Because when you told me you earned overtime, I thought it was like the whole time you've been here. That's right, you know, you have to always remind the client that it's their situation, and when you do that, it should be super simple to give them the bad news.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And I'll give you another scenario that recently occurred, kind of similar to what you're talking about here, is the borrower went from one job to two working similar hours, but has only been doing that for about 10 months. If we go, fha requires two years. Yes, there's exceptions and there's gray, but it's got to be pretty clear and your reasoning has to be right. Conventional only 12 months. So we switch that to 12 months, but still are short two months of doing that.
Speaker 2:And when we asked the borrower okay, is there anything else in your history? She mentioned yeah, I was self-employed 1099. Okay, great, get us those. She wasn't able to. So it's like, okay, so you either really didn't or they didn't keep track of it, or whatever the case. But no worries, here's a solution. We're already under contract on this home. If the sellers of that home were to go and relist it, they're now going to have to wait who knows, 15, 30 days to get a contract and another 30 to 45 days to get it closed. And who's to say that this doesn't happen again with the borrower that they have now? So why don't we offer to lease forward the property with more earnest money and we close you in January? Now you've got 12 months. There is no unless you miss payment. I mean your bullet credit 780, I don't see there being a risk. It's just the concept of articulating that to the sellers in the right way that they understand and don't go. Well, we've been duped. Let's just put it on the market.
Speaker 1:Okay, sellers need to buy a house by selling that house. That could be an issue, but it's definitely something to put out there.
Speaker 2:You're solving a problem. You're providing solutions at the minimum. Yes, you are right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's great. I had a situation like that, just that I just closed. But.
Speaker 2:I will tell you many loan officers would be faced with that and they'd sit on it for a week and just let time pass, thinking that something's going to get resolved. And what is the resolution for this?
Speaker 1:They don't ever tell them until the day of closing. Why are you waiting? I just tell them immediately, that's correct. Remember I told you I had a blow up yesterday and had to work at this point yes.
Speaker 1:I wasn't lying, so I'm going to tell you about that blow up. Tell me, because it happens to all of us. I'm not perfect. So when I pre-qualified a client, he already used his VA. Okay, and I said, well, we can use the rest of your VA. And so I didn't have a that. And I said your max is $558,000. Because I'm a max person, so I did that. Of course he bought max, yeah, and so I'm here working these loans so that I can disclose. And when I said, hey, I need that COE, like now. So we got the COE and I saw I was only a few thousand off, but that few thousand.
Speaker 2:It's the down payment. That's now Right.
Speaker 1:So I'm like shit, I need $19,000 the down payment. That's now right. So I'm like shit, I need nineteen thousand dollars now. So, and I knew he didn't have it, but I thought maybe, maybe he has it somewhere. So I called him immediately, right? And and I, well, I called my realtor first to tell him let them know, yeah, and then he didn't answer. So then I called the client and I I told him immediately and I said do you have any money, like anything? And he's like no, like. And I said, oh my god, I'm so sorry, I'm so, and he's like no. And I said, oh my God, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. And he's like no, no, no, lisa, it's okay. I said, man, we were only a few thousand off, but what a difference it made.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And so I let him go.
Speaker 2:And if you don't have a resolution for this, I would suggest parlaying it. Okay, go, go.
Speaker 1:So as I hung up with him, I was like so I called him back and I said do you want to maybe do a HELOC on your current property? I said, if I do a HELOC, you'll have money for the down. And he says, lisa, whatever you can do, I said okay, but he didn't have the greatest credit. So I did try the HELOC, got the money. So then I was like okay, called him back and I said, okay, he probably would have been approved.
Speaker 2:There's no way we can buy it down to make it work. To make that situation Well, it would have been fine ratio wise.
Speaker 1:The problem was is most HELOCs were on a 680. Okay, I didn't have that. Yeah, I was just trying. So then I called him and said, okay, that didn't work. Okay, I have one other solution. He's like, yeah, I said, why don't we go with the down payment assistance? Boom, let me tell you what the payment. Because I was going to give him a tax vet at five and a half. Yeah, now I'm going to be at 6.875. I said, let's see if you like the payment first.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So I told him about the payment 100% disabled vet. Didn't have taxes, no taxes, yep. So he's like, no, I'm fine with that payment. I said okay Then tomorrow because that was 7. I'm going to work on your file. I need to make sure I'm okay. Price point, I'm okay. Income I got to make sure I'm okay, okay. So that's what I did this morning. I made sure, you know, I was okay on my price point because the max is $571. And I was a $536. And then your income can't be more than $130. I was $164, but I lowered it by removing some income Right, and lowered it by removing some income Right, and with that income I removed, I paid some debt. Like you know how you can use it for something else.
Speaker 2:And you know what? Pause right there because that reminds me of something. It was a video that I needed to record and I'll probably still do it for you folks out there. But the idea behind the max seller concessions on a VA loan people still believe is only 4% and that is incorrect. It is 4% in addition to any customary charges to a transaction.
Speaker 1:And you can use some of that 4% to pay down debt. Sure, you can, you know you can, but I didn't pay down any debt. I used all the money towards my costs and I used the income that I took away from him. So I had to take away income, away income, because otherwise I'd be over the income limit. So I took away his retirement and I used that retirement to pay some of the debt, because you can offset debt on a VA if you're not using the income. So I offset some of my installment debt. That was within 24 months and I got my automated and right before I got here I called him and told them Problem solved why Because he was working with an expert.
Speaker 2:Yes, there is truly a definitive difference between somebody that is going through the motions or just trying to get a paycheck and somebody that truly has a passion for this. They love the guidelines. It's not necessarily I love reading the guidelines, but I love finding the guideline that helps me solve this, yes, yes, and sometimes it's really crazy that it's a super simple fix.
Speaker 1:Yes, that kind of freaks me out when it's super simple.
Speaker 2:I think we overcomplicate it at times that we get so tunnel vision into this one thing on the deal, when you could either have somebody else take a look at it and then you're like, oh that's right, I totally didn't even think about that, or just take a bird's eye view, take a breath, take a step back and then be willing to tell that borrower what actually needs to be done.
Speaker 1:Yes, so when we used to have files? Remember we used to have files. Yes, I do so.
Speaker 2:When we used to have files, Matter of fact, I think my first day in the mortgage business was the day that I first saw a loan officer throw a file against the wall. It was like, oh my God, is this normal?
Speaker 1:Or throw it up and see if it sticks. Yeah, so when we used to have files, I used to call it my corner. I put the file in the corner because I would be like that's like my mind is going to think about that at all times to find a resolution for it. That's what I would always do.
Speaker 2:Wait. So you're saying you don't work nine to five like these bankers out here?
Speaker 1:No, I work whenever I need to work.
Speaker 2:That's right. So I guess let's see here when are we at on time JC 40 minutes. Okay, so let's get into the meat and potatoes of this discussion, because throughout your journey you've mentioned working for a builder working for a builder and I never got the opportunity to work for a builder directly early on in my career. I did get a preferred lender with Roush Coleman back in the day, but it turns out everybody was the preferred for Roush Coleman. I do have one now with Titan Factory, but manufactured homes.
Speaker 2:But what we are seeing since 2020, and I think this is pretty true and accurate is builders stopped needing us, stopped needing us for turndowns, stopped needing us, for that's pretty much. It specifically is turndowns. I mean, I used to do a KB Holmes turndowns all the time DR Horton turndowns. We were upstairs right above them and we were willing to say hey, yeah, give me your shit, I'll look at it. Let's turn it water into wine concept.
Speaker 2:But since 2020 and the frenzy and the lack of inventory that was out there, we kind of took a backseat to all of the builder concept for a long period of time and are still facing going hand in hand with the. There's enough business to go around. We're still facing an up against the hurdle of how do they have this four point nine nine rate? How do they have this five percent rate rate? How do they have this 5% rate? What are your thoughts on what's happening in the new construction world? Because I will tell you, I've gotten maybe a handful of turndowns from builders this year, and we're already in end of October and we normally would get half the business coming from turndowns in that regard, yeah, but they just don't. They're like oh, they don't qualify, we're moving on to the next one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and they can do that if they have plenty of clients coming their way right. It's when they don't have enough clients. They need you to work it to death, and builders are I mean they are going to use you up if they need to. Right.
Speaker 2:And it's a business.
Speaker 1:You can't take it personal and, having that experience working with builders, I can tell you that I know that's for sure. They are strictly business. They have their requirements for the year. They want to close 6,000 transactions for the year. They're going to make that happen and if they need you to make that happen, then they're going to employ you to do that. If they don't, then they're not. They want to have a capture. They want to have 100% capture, if they can with their own lender, you know, by having their lender in-house, that makes them have more money to help buy down that rate.
Speaker 2:That they're going to offer you.
Speaker 1:So it's unfortunate, but it's just something we have to deal with. To me it's a monopoly, yeah, and there shouldn't be any monopolies in America, but it is a monopoly and nobody's paying attention to that. But it's absolutely a monopoly, because we cannot compete, and when you cannot compete, that's a monopoly. That's exactly right. That's a monopoly. And the reason why we can't compete is because they are doing things internally that's correct by buying that rate down internally, so that they don't have to pay the points externally like we do.
Speaker 2:That is correct, and I was talking to JC about this before, but let me throw this up on the screen. We can use this reference Boom, jc, can you see this? Mm-hmm. All right, I'm going to see if I can make it bigger. Okay, so now I got to put my glasses on here. I can make it even bigger. Boop, boop.
Speaker 2:So what you folks are looking at on your screen is a backdoor pricing sheet that we got a hold of from one of the builders I won't say the name, anything like that, because it's irrelevant. They're all doing it, and is it unethical? I don't think so. I think that they're just deploying the what they can. They're doing what they can. That's exactly right. They're living within the boundaries of what they've created.
Speaker 2:So if we look at this and study it for just a moment, we'll see here multiple different prices for the same actual home.
Speaker 2:There are a couple of facets to this that I want to hone in on, and at the top you've got listing price, rock bottom price, new price with government, new price with conventional, and what you'll notice is the difference between the list price, as is does have the lower interest rates that you can get, with this difference between the rock bottom price, meaning I walked in and I'm paying cash versus somebody that is financing who is now paying $40,000 more in your home and when Lisa was talking about, we can't actually buy down the rate on our side to the same extent as this.
Speaker 2:Let's say, in this case scenario, if I do some quick math, two points would be just under six grand or so. That's typically the max that we can show on the charge to the borrower. In regards to discount points, unless we've got seller credits, then we can move those over to that side. But we're talking a $40,000 difference in buying down from the market the market rate versus what they're giving them. So how in the world is it possible that they're buying this rate down $40,000 worth and not showing it? You were talking about it earlier, but if you could enlighten us again because you're dead on.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a forward commitment, so a builder can do and it can be us, we can do it as well Absolutely Okay. So any mortgage company can do what's called a forward commitment, and what that is is they are pre-purchasing an interest rate. So they're pre-purchasing it and they're holding onto this because they've already purchased it for thousands and thousands of dollars. And now, if you're a builder and you're doing this, you are offering it to the homes that you want to sell. So let's say, you have homes sitting there that you got to sell them and so you're going to go. These are homes with a 4.99 rate, so not every home gets that rate right.
Speaker 1:And this is for government let's just say government and then some are conventional. So what they're doing is they are increasing your price because they are paying for that forward commitment. And then they're telling you plus, we're giving you 6%, but in reality all of that is already included in the total price. And that's what you see on the screen, where you have that $40,000 difference. It's because they are doing the forward commitment, so you're paying for it. You just don't see it, but you are totally paying for it.
Speaker 1:And another thing you might not see is and I want to talk about this. It's about how real estate agents now have to have you sign a buyer's rep agreement where now you, the buyer, are responsible to pay your realtor or the listing agent. You have to include it that the seller pays and they have to agree to it. Before it was just a given the seller was always going to pay that fee for you. Now it's something that you have to negotiate that payment, and what's crazy is that is only necessary because your realtors, the listing agent and your buyer's agent they have licenses with Texas or wherever.
Speaker 1:A fiduciary responsibility. They have a license, just like we have a license Now when you're dealing with builders. They don't have a license so they can say we're going to pay 6% to any realtor that comes our way. So if you have a realtor you're working with and not to be ugly or mean, but if you have a, realtor you're working with and the first place they take you is to a builder. They might be getting 6%.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Because they want to get a big paycheck and they don't want. They're just doing something easy.
Speaker 1:You want to always Nor do they have to disclose it, because I believe it's important that you, the buyer, know that if you're walking into a brand new community, there's nothing wrong with wanting a brand new house and there's nothing wrong with getting a 4.99 rate. Oh, that's great, absolutely, and we want you to get it. But remember you're paying $40,000 over the price if they're giving you that great low rate, because they're paying for your realtor's 6%, they're paying for your incentives, they're paying for the forward commitment of the 4.99 rate. All of that is you're paying for it because you're buying the house at that price.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm just letting you know, because we're being transparent If you go and look at homes for sale by owners and you go and look at that as well there might be something that's already built that you might be able to also buy for less. That's also something you want to look at. You just want to make sure you're looking at everything and not just going straight to the builder. Sometimes sellers will do something wrong and they will sell their home based on what the seller is selling their home for. They can't be doing that. They cannot be doing that. If you're a seller and you have a community that's still building homes, be aware of this.
Speaker 1:Absolutely If you're trying to sell your house for that 270, where they have 40,000 built in, to give you know a Ford commitment 4.99 rate and they're giving 6% close. Well then, you better be giving that too. That's right. If you want to sell your house at that price, so think about as being a listing or somebody who's selling and you're talking to your listing agent. Be aware of what is going on in your community so that your house can sell properly, absolutely, and fast.
Speaker 2:So you mentioned a couple of things that I want to hone in on here. Number one is not every home gets that same price, right? Should that be against some type of regulation? I do believe so. It's a subtle way of steering, in my opinion. Sure, the other thing that you mentioned is the realtor fiduciary, and I already had that written down to talk about, because you are right, my wife is a realtor. Same concept talk about, because you are right, my wife is a realtor. Same concept.
Speaker 2:And in training her and coaching her in the beginning, it was always ask questions of your borrower to determine the best way to move forward. Because if they're telling you that they're only here for two years or something along those lines, new construction is not the best route to take with them. And the concept that you were mentioning before about competing with the builder I'll bring that full circle is let's say, you go to this new construction community, the payment is within your budget because of the rate that they're offering, but they did add that money to your sales price, so essentially, they are using your money to buy down that rate. Fast forward two years, it's time to sell. Well, guess what? That community is probably not done, being built out. So when you've got the same person, let's say you two years prior, walking into that new community, are you going to buy that pre-owned one? Are you going to buy the brand new one that probably has a rate incentive, that probably has closing costs, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:That's why the costs keep going up.
Speaker 2:Isn't that crazy. In addition, you've got to understand that we lend based on collateral. The collateral is the property. When we do an appraisal for a new construction property, guess who the comps are that are being provided? It's only the new construction homes within that mile radius. So who's controlling the price? Is it the market? Not really. It's kind of the builder. It's the builder. They keep going up every three to six months, so you don't necessarily find out what your property value is until the first person. Two or three people sell their home in that community, and that's just the cold hard truth.
Speaker 2:I want people out there to start considering these things, both as a consumer and as a realtor representing your client, because there's a fiduciary responsibility and it goes past your paycheck. It has a lot to do with doing the right thing based on what you know about that borrower. There's been many times when we're working with a borrower on our side, repairing their credit, getting them ready to go what have you? And once they're ready, they all of a sudden switch to new construction and it's like well, wait a minute, do I now stop and have this conversation with the realtor about did they mention to you that they're only staying here two years. Did they mention to you this, that and the other? Because they mentioned it to me and this doesn't seem to be the right path for them to take. But hey, you're the realtor, you're the one. I'm not going to tell you how to do your job, but just know that this is that's a toughie, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1:You it absolutely is you? Know I'm going to be honest with you. If my client has credit issues, I do have the conversation with them. I do tell them, okay, whether it's. If it's easy, I'm going to tell them exactly how to do it. If they're not paying their bills, well, you just need to pay your bills, that's right. And I do ask are you wanting to buy a brand new home? Are you buying an existing home? And I see what they say.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just recently had a conversation. I had a realtor ask to please call, please call, please call. And I called him like eight times and the lady finally called me and she was super sweet. She's like I'm so sorry, I was just so busy, no problem, total great conversation, cause she had a grand baby brand new. I had a grand baby venue, so we had a great conversation.
Speaker 1:In the end I found out she is buying a DR Horton brand new home. I said hey, okay, so if you are 100% sure that's what you want, they're going to offer you all these beautiful incentives that I don't want to take you away from, right. So only if they are not helping you, come back to me, right, but you need to go directly to them. And then I messaged the realtor and said she's buying a DR Horton home, take. And then I messaged a realtor and said she's buying a DR Horton home, take her straight there. That's right, you know. So I do have the conversation because I don't want to run a credit again. I don't want to spend that extra time with them knowing that they are just going to go somewhere else and do it all over anyway. So I ask those questions Now if they do need credit repair.
Speaker 2:I have to have the conversation with the client, not I have to have the conversation with the client, not so much the realtor, because there's a lot of folks out there that, from my branch manager, hat is on You'll have loan officers that will fix their credit because they think that that's the right thing to do for the customer, with the inclination that maybe they won't go back to that new construction that they were essentially absolutely not. They're going to go back to the new construction and all you did was help them and also add more expenses to your branches.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So what I do with the client is I say I have a conversation before I even run the credit. I say how's your credit? And they know do you have a credit karma? We all have credit karma. So what's your credit karma score? They tell me okay. Cause if they say, even I don't know, you know if you have a credit karma. We all have credit karma. Yeah. So what's your credit karma score? They tell me Okay. Because if they say, even I don't know, you know if you have good credit, right.
Speaker 1:And then I say why are you saying I don't know?
Speaker 2:Tell me what happened. It's almost a good time to chuckle with them on the phone.
Speaker 1:You know damn well what your credit score is so and if I do have those conversations with them because I don't want to pull a hard credit report if they're in repair. Absolutely Okay. And then I do ask, of course are you wanting to buy a brand new or existing? And if they say brand new, say look, if I'm going to be working with you, go, get denied, that's right Go right now.
Speaker 1:Right now, go get denied. Make sure they're building homes. If they're building homes, get on a three-month build. Get on two months. I can fix this. In this much time they might just keep you and that's where you stay.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Or come back to me and you're not going to help me. I've gotten people to say you're not going to help me. Well, okay, I can't help you today, right, but if you?
Speaker 2:have to take you have to go there first. Because even still and I do the same thing, but to a certain extent there was a long period of time where you would do that go to them first. They'd get denied, they'd come to you time to help them. You roll your sleeves up, you do what needs to be done and they pull them right back from you.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I get a contract.
Speaker 2:Very good.
Speaker 1:I get a contract, you go to them. You get denied. You still write the contract for me to do it, and then I'll do it.
Speaker 2:Very good.
Speaker 1:That's how I do it with a contract.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I'm not going to do it any other way.
Speaker 1:There's no reason to apologize. I'm just not going to do it. Any need credit repair, but I want to boost them. Yes, let's say they're at a 615. I say, well, you're only five points away, we can do down payment assistance. Maybe you know, let's get you and I'll look at it and go just pay this card down. Do it right now. Do it today.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:You know and you're going to boost up and you never know, like three to five days, yeah it and get the credit card if you don't have it. So that way we'll know when it goes up.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know. So I try to school them on this, but there's so much to tell someone. It's true. So much to tell someone. I would love to come back and we talk about that.
Speaker 2:That would be a great, great discussion right there. Yeah, jc, how are we doing on time? We're going to be seven minutes on the dot. Okay, we are good. There's a couple of things that we can kind of round this thing off, but thus far, man, not bad for your first podcast.
Speaker 1:Kind of a natural. I can talk a lot if I have to.
Speaker 2:And what I found is that it's easy to discuss things intellectually with those that know what the hell they're doing. It's tough Matter of fact. I've only had it one time where I'm like you know what I'm talking about. Tough Matter of fact. I've only had it one time where I'm like you know what you're talking about. And it makes it very difficult in these situations, because this intention, the intention of this podcast, is to give the folks whether you're a buyer, a seller, a realtor, a lender, just somebody that is a novice running across this I want you to be able to take something from this and say I didn't get sold, I just learned a whole bunch that I didn't know before.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm here for. I'm here just to give knowledge, you know, and I love what I do. There's a passion. If you're a loan officer, you don't love what you do, just go do something you love, that's right. Get the hell out to be doing this. That's right. I spoke to two people today that want a job as because I posted for los, sure, and never have they been los yeah and I said you okay, that's not what you apply for.
Speaker 2:You apply for receptionists that's right that's what you reply apply for because you don't get in and be taught well, lisa, we've seen so many of us throughout the years leverage what we do into social media and the onlookers are seeing that, but they don't see behind the scenes. We're giving them a bit of what happens behind the scenes right here, but they don't see all the work that goes into it All the hours. Just like you mentioned at the beginning of this that you were up thinking about the file solutions, you know that is a very common thing when you get to our level and they just see the facade that we paint on social media, which is intended for marketing purposes. Guys, we show you what we want to show you.
Speaker 1:We're not going to show you closing day. We don't show you like the beginning and how crazy it was Right, how we got there.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think they go into it with the expectations of this is another sales job and that is not the case. Is there sales involved? I'm not a salesperson. To a certain extent, in my opinion, you're educating and providing solutions more than anything these days, these days, because if you had your stuff together, you could just go to the credit union, put your 20% down, get the best rate you possibly can get and go through without a hitch. Let's not pretend that that's not there. Matter of fact, my last several homes that we purchased I mean it was I didn't even realize I was going through the mortgage process. Why? Because I had my stuff together. It's like here is this, here's that Matter of fact. I already did the research on this here you go and we're veterans.
Speaker 1:I would just do that Correct. So you know. I think that honestly, when you are searching for a mortgage, you have to remember if all you're searching for is rate, that's all you're going to get is rate. You're not going to get the service, you're not going to get the same person, you're not going to get the eight o'clock phone calls, you're not going to get solutions, you're just going to get the rate, which is great if you're perfect. Okay, if you're working with a broker, you're also going to get rate, but you're not going to get convenience. You're going to get somebody who has to send everything out.
Speaker 1:Not to be ugly to brokers, but that's you and if you're working with a mortgage banker, you've got somebody who has their own money. They've got a whole lot of solutions and this is all they do, absolutely Matter of fact.
Speaker 2:I want to look something up real quick, jc, I'm going to go to chat GPT. If I can find it, here we go and I would like to see. It may not have the answers, but what percentage of mortgages in let's go 2023, what percentages of mortgages were originated at a credit union versus a mortgage banker or broker? Let's see if it has it. It's pretty smart. I've trained it pretty well. Yeah, it sits when it's supposed to sit. Okay, in non-depository Okay.
Speaker 2:The majority of mortgage originated account for 68% first liens, the increase from around 60% in 2022. Credit unions, on the other hand, typically originate a smaller percentage of mortgages, with the market share usually seven to 10%. So exactly what I thought was going to come up came up, because what we're talking about here is the idea of I call them bullets. If you've got a bullet buyer, you be very direct, very upfront with them and don't shy away from the fact that they can get it cheaper somewhere else, but they're not going to get you. When they do that, right, and lo and behold, 7% to 10% out of 100% that are buying end up going to that credit union route, going to that credit union route. So there are very few people. Even if you are perfect credit, you still have some hair on your deal that needs to be combed through by an expert that can provide you the options or solutions to get you to that finish line.
Speaker 1:Your credit isn't the only thing that we look at no, there's so much more than that, it's true. Yeah, there's so much more, and it's unfortunate that so many go to their bank, it's true, and they get denied Yep, and they stop.
Speaker 2:And then they're discouraged.
Speaker 1:They just stop.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:So sad, but I want to come back and do another one.
Speaker 2:I agree, lisa. Is there anything that you would like to let our viewers listeners know?
Speaker 1:viewers, listeners know it can be advice, tips, anything like that, that we can close this thing out on Don't give up. I like that. Don't give up. If you really want to buy a house today, in today's market, you need to buy your house. You need to buy your house there's. I mean, if you Google who owns most of America, it's not America, it's Canada. So you need to own your house because they're these big companies are buying up everything and they're buying it up because they want you to rent from them.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:So if you are renting, get with your friends, get with your family, buy a freaking house, that's right. There is no reason why you shouldn't buy a house if you're renting. That means you can afford something.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And get together and do it together. I mean, that's my advice.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:Be smart with your money. Stop wasting your money.
Speaker 2:I'll even add to that I can't even be upset at these big corporations that are buying properties, because, at the end of the day, you had the opportunity as a consumer to do that. You weren't brave enough to take that risk do that. You weren't brave enough to take that risk. You didn't work with the right person that at least filled you with the right hope that you needed in order to move forward. But I put it back on you as the consumer there's still property out there. There's still opportunity. Get your butt and throw your hat in the ring, or else you will be stuck as a renter.
Speaker 1:We can show you how to do it. Absolutely we can show you how to do it. So hopefully in our next episode we can talk about how you can do it if you don't think you can afford it right now, I love that and how you can.
Speaker 2:That sounds like a great episode to me. Yeah, lisa, I want to thank you for doing this. I know I made it, I am't? That's awesome. Well, lisa, thank you again for joining me on this. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being transparent with the folks out there. Thank you for being real. That's something that is very rare in this industry is being your true self, no matter what the situation is. And some advice for you guys out there be yourself, be real, work hard. At the end of the day, it is going to be the effort that you put in what you get out of this industry. So I think that we talked about a whole lot of good stuff here, and I will end it with that. Ladies and gentlemen, we will catch you on the next one. Bye.
