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Key Factors RealEstateAF
Educational Podcast for Consumers, Mortgage & Real Estate Industry Professionals. We'll Talk About It All! Key Factors podcast, powered by https://ReviewMyMortgage.com . Your Host Mark Jones invites Industry Pros to help uncover & educate on the key factors of various topics. There’s something for everyone so let us be your guides and get educated. Subscribe & Follow on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Facebook, Instagram, & all other podcasting platforms. Host : Mark A Jones Founder of ReviewMyMortgage.comProducing Branch MangerSr. Loan Officer. NMLS ID# 513437NMLS Consumer Access: http://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org/Powered by ReviewMyMortgage.com
Key Factors RealEstateAF
Why Aren't Y'all Brokers by Now | Agent vs Broker
Welcome to this enlightening episode of Key Factors Podcast - RealEstateAF , where knowledge meets ambition in the fast-paced realms of real estate and finance. Hosted by Mark Jones, this podcast brings together top industry experts to dissect and discuss the evolving market dynamics, investment opportunities, and critical strategies for success in real estate.
Today's episode features a deep dive into the essential roles and strategic decisions that define the success paths of real estate agents and brokers. Join us as we explore with our guests, Martin Tirado and Anthony Almaguer, with REAL Brokers in San Antonio, Texas, the nuanced differences between these roles and how they impact team dynamics and business growth in the ever-competitive real estate landscape.
Episode Highlights:
Introduction to Real Estate Dynamics (0:00-2:00):
Mark Jones sets the stage, introducing the podcast’s mission to meld knowledge with ambition, aiming to empower real estate professionals and enthusiasts with cutting-edge insights and actionable advice.
Agent vs. Broker – Roles and Growth Paths (2:01-15:29):
Our guests delve into the critical differences between agents and brokers, discussing how these roles evolve as professionals advance in their careers. They cover the strategic decisions involved in growing real estate teams and the impact of these decisions on business scalability and personal growth.
Transitioning Skills from Other Industries (15:30-27:59):
Anthony shares his journey from the fitness industry to real estate, highlighting how skills from other sectors can significantly boost one's success in real estate. This segment is particularly inspiring for newcomers transitioning from various backgrounds, emphasizing adaptability and the transfer of versatile skills.
Navigating Market Shifts (28:00-40:59):
As the market continuously evolves, our experts discuss the importance of adapting to changes, such as obtaining a broker's license and the strategic timing for such moves. This part of the discussion focuses on aligning professional credentials with market needs and personal business goals.
Emphasizing Innovation in Practices (41:10-52:19):
The conversation shifts towards innovation in real estate practices. Our guests discuss the necessity of embracing change and leveraging innovative approaches to stay ahead in a competitive market. This segment is crucial for professionals aiming to differentiate themselves and excel in a crowded marketplace.
Building and Demonstrating Value (52:20-1:04:00):
Here, the focus is on how real estate professionals can effectively communicate and demonstrate their value to clients, crucial for justifying commissions and building trust. This part is packed with actionable tips for enhancing visibility and proving worth in both the eyes of clients and peers.
This episode is not just a podcast but a masterclass for anyone passionate about mastering the art of real estate. Whether you’re starting your journey or looking to sharpen your skills further, the insights shared here will equip you with the knowledge to navigate through the complexities of the property market successfully.
Let's Connect :
We love to hear from our listeners! If you have any questions or need more insights on specific points discussed, please leave a comment below. Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share this episode if you find it enlightening and helpful. Your engagement helps us grow and continue bringing valuable content to you.
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Key Factors Podcast is Powered by ReviewMyMortgage.com
Host: Mark Jones | Sr. Loan Officer | NMLS# 513437
If you would like to work with Mark on your next home purchase or as a partner visit iThink Mortgage.
And let's uncover the key factors that make all the difference. Welcome to Key Factors Podcast. Let the journey begin and welcome back to another episode of Key Factors Podcast. Real Estate, af and the AF stands for and finance, and I'm your host, mark Jones, and we are powered by ReviewMyMortgagecom, the largest index of mortgage programs in the nation, and we've had some pretty good discussions in the past weeks from all different types of realtors, brokers, loan officers and I wanted to give you guys a little bit of taste of the conversation that is being had, I think, behind the scenes, and that is the difference between an agent and a broker, what the differences are, in addition to the advantages and disadvantages. And I've got two gentlemen here today that I believe can shed some light on this, because they are definitely faced with that decision as they grow their teams and their business.
Speaker 1:So, without further ado, let me introduce my guests today. I've got Martin Tirado Martin, what's going on? How's it going Going well? And then I've also got Anthony Almaguer How's it going, brother? How's it going Going well? Yes, yes, happy to have you guys on today and the discussion here, gosh, there's so much to talk about. A lot of people think that this conversation is black and white and I believe it's kind of like mortgage guidelines. It's all gray. So if you guys could, before we jump into the discussion Martin's been on here before, but it's been a little while we were probably still using cell phone cameras when we were doing that episode. But, martin, if you could start tell us a little bit about yourself, why should the people listen to you? Where you started in the business, all that jazz.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I it's funny enough, like, yeah, you did start with the phones, but it it's a lot of humble beginnings. And look, now we're here, now that super professional environment. You know, I'm so happy to be back and just seeing the progress and but I think, just like you had mentioned, you know, there's always different starting points. My starting point I've been in the real estate industry for over 10 years now. I've sold over $100 million in real estate, over a thousand transactions, and we've done anything from developments to, you know, flip projects to new construction and all the real estate in between. So so, realistically, I've had my fair share of success and failures at the same time. So we'll like to share a shed a whole lot of light on that.
Speaker 1:That's it, though, right, and you also grew up with a family that was in this business. From the construction side of things, is that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we used to build custom homes for about 14 years. Market crashed so we had to take a step back, sure, and unfortunately it did kind of cripple the family a tad bit. But, like we were discussing earlier today, what doesn't kill you, make you stronger.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. Yeah, we're hard to kill. That's right, Anthony. What's going on, man? Yeah, what's going on? Tell us about yourself.
Speaker 3:And it came in real estate. You know, change of pace for me came from the fitness industry, okay, but a lot of people don't know I was on a leadership side, an executive side that was helping people with, you know, balancing budgets, p&ls, leadership keynote, speaking business to business. So I came over into real estate little guppy new, didn't know anything, I just knew what I knew. I knew from the last industry and I think that first year, just with the tools that I had, I ended up selling about 81 homes. I didn't know that was good, that's strong. I just did. I kept my head down and kept working. I think you knew a little. I knew a little bit about people. Actually it's a people business. There you go.
Speaker 3:So I was good with people, I was by myself and that, I guess, indirectly led me back into leadership. You know people wanted to come learn what I was doing and, of course, I want to pick your brain. So you know, four years now we've had a team here in San Antonio probably averaging 50 to 60 million a year with our group doing an awesome job and, yeah, I love it. You know same thing. You know, like Martin, we're maybe, you know, close to that thousand transaction mark, which is pretty cool to see, I mean, in five years. Wow, like, what are we doing? You know, this is awesome, we're helping people. So, yeah, just a little fast track. We're here, we're doing it and I'm excited.
Speaker 1:And we'll continue Absolutely so the idea of what's happening in our market, which we're going to talk about and touch on a little bit later in this discussion, but the idea behind what's actually happening in our market has probably got a lot of folks shifting, adjusting and, in many cases, downsizing what they're doing, cutting margins left and right, finding out who's a real player and who's not. And, that being the case, people are also wondering should I go get my broker's license and start my own? And I've had plenty of brokers on here. Matter of fact, I had Austin Pantuso, I'll have him again tomorrow. I have Bill Becker on here.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's great to hear from those guys and to hear the truth about how the broker life really is. Everybody thinks it's this lucrative concept of I'm just going to sit back and let the money roll in while I have my foot soldiers go out and fight the Klan. So, that being the case, what's going on in your world? I know there was some shifting going on. I know that you guys are still growing despite this market but, at the same time, still making those adjustments, like anybody should, that is, a leader of their company right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, no, I think right now it is. I love that we were going to talk about this because the broker, like you said, I think the traditional side is just having a tougher time. It is Like you just said the market shifted and no longer can we sit back and just let the agents go out and perform. A lot of folks in leadership step back into production. Folks in leadership, step back into production. We saw that a lot and a lot of people are saying that and there's nothing wrong with that. That's actually. It's fun. We have to help families. We have to still lead by example for our crew.
Speaker 3:But my big thing right now and my big focal point that I've been telling folks about, is it's the innovator that should win. I had an old mentor of mine tell me a saying that stuck with me forever If you're not the disruptor, you're the disrupted. Yeah, and I think right now more than ever, because we've had so many changes since this COVID year and everything that happened, the world changed so many times. Absolutely, mark, you've been one of the ones that have adapted quite a bit. Yeah, kudos to you, thank you. Innovators, right, do something different, be original. So, broker versus agent Right, being a broker agent. In a sense, I look at innovation like that is where we go Right and I think the folks that are doing it are going to shine brighter right now.
Speaker 1:I agree with that. Now, now, when you say innovation, first off, I love the word disruptor. Everybody sees it as this negative thing. But if you know kind of what it really means, you want to strive to be a disruptor, if you have that ability, if you have that mindset to see things through and test new boundaries and fail multiple times. But the idea of what you guys are doing, evolution wise, is it just a technology thing or is it also traits that we are now incorporating into our business, into our practice?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's just putting what we're doing, I guess, a little bit more on TV. Right, the world changed to a lot more social media focused. Everybody's on their phone, everybody's watching this on their phone. Right now, things are different five, 10 years ago. Right, like the curating and experience is still the core. But now who is figuring out how to curate that experience through mobile?
Speaker 3:I like it, and not just copying somebody else and just looking traditional. Sure, sure. That's kind of where we need to start heading and going. Be more of a storyteller. I like that. Tell people what it's like to live this life or to buy that house, or you know, not even that I had a good mentor. Again, kind of preach about what is it like to be in that house in the morning? What is it like to be in that house at night when you're having dinner? A different style of presenting a listing, right, so little small things. It's not a huge thing, but if you can focus on these small changes that people want to see, that's innovation, that's disruption. Nobody else is doing that, so people will attract to that high.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right. Yeah, and I'll throw something else in there. So I feel like a lot of the stuff that Anthony just said is bringing the heart to it. Yeah, and there's a lot of times, like we have all these other disruptors, that they're more technology based, where the heart's taken out of it and it's just a transaction. So I think where we, as real estate agents and two team leads, is how do we put the heart back into the transaction? Yes, because there's going to be eventually a time where they're going to try to eliminate the real estate agent. They're going to start it.
Speaker 1:Oh, you mean that hasn't happened yet?
Speaker 2:They've been trying. But the one thing and I think this is the only part that a lot of people aren't talking about is the heart. Who is really caring for the families, the point that they could get to transition smoothly, that their kids have to finish up school, et cetera. Like those are very big impacted parts that a lot of people do forget. But I think when we like with the company that we're a part of, there is a lot of innovation that's in there, but there's also a lot of heart that's processed through it and the energy comes off of that too.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I do agree with that a hundred percent. Now, kind of piggybacking off of that this question would you go as far as to say that, the heart that you're talking about, which I totally understand what you mean is it something that is inherently going to need to be a part of your business and you do it or is it something that you also have to show it? You have to show it.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Yeah, no, you do, because you know nobody do, cause you know nobody cares about what you know until they know how much you care. And that's that's a big uh. That's a big thing for me because I learned that a long time ago and um buyers and other business professionals, they can smell commission breath from a mile away, absolutely yeah. So whenever you get to show them that the heart's in there, then it makes things a whole lot easier. Your intentions are correct.
Speaker 1:And it brings forth your value quicker than, um, in my opinion, anyone else that's out there doing it. If you can grab that heart and and essentially, uh, help it beat in a uh, uh, I don't know, weird way. Um, but, and it goes hand in hand with something that I did recently at a presentation. I went to Titan Factory, manufactured housing, and I've become quickly their either second or preferred lender, Nice, and they've got a good group there. So they asked me to come in and do a little bit of training.
Speaker 1:So I went in and as I was driving to the training, I'm like man, how can I articulate to them value, Like they have to show value? What is one way that I can do that quickly and get them to feel it quickly? So I reached in my pocket and went wait a minute, I've got, I've got a pocket full of cash and I start feeling it and I'm going OK, wait a minute, this $100 feels like this $1 bill. So when I got there I said, OK, I need one volunteer Volunteer stands up. I'm like OK, so what's the difference between this $100 and this $1? And he said well, the value. I said you nailed it, Correct, but now close your eyes.
Speaker 1:And I handed it to him and said tell me the difference, Pick the $100 out of this. And he grabbed the $1 bill and went here you go. I went, yeah, See, surprise, you have to have your eyes open and actually show your value these days, because talking about it isn't enough anymore. Exactly, yeah. So yeah, that being the case, as we roll into this next segment of broker versus agent, I want to find out, because I know the difference, but there are a lot of folks out there that are wondering should I take that next step to become a broker? What is the difference? What are the advantages? And you guys, being the powerhouses that you are, why are you not brokers?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I see this. Even when I came into the industry, I met a lot of brokers that were even just starting, that are very, very good now, like they're very popular, you know doing great. But then I also saw a lot that were great at sales, helping families, so forth, and the leadership part just wasn't maybe there. So I think an old saying right Not every best player is the best coach. So if somebody is thinking about becoming a broker, there's different ideologies and different things to learn along the way. I know we, you know we're going to take our courses here and you know everybody's going to learn, but it's, it's, is it in you to be that leader? Right, Right, if we, if you're thinking about being a broker and you do want to do the, sit back and let my, my soldiers go out and hunt, might not work for you as much anymore.
Speaker 1:Well, is it? Is it too much for me to say that that model is dead?
Speaker 3:It's getting there. Right, it's getting there. I mean, brand, is everything right now Right? And so a lot of that traditional mindset that I was just going to be a broker and people just want to come work for me. A lot of these individual agents now are so concerned with brand and to attract and to make sure, like, are you helping them with their brand? Or again, are you going to sit back and just watch them, watch them work? It's just, it's kind of dying out a little bit. But my thing is, if you're into running P&Ls, you like marketing strategy, you like having meetings, you like having staff you interview, you know you're into that side of the game. That's ownership, which is what a broker is and that's your day-to-day concern. Is our company growing right? Not that you just hired a whole bunch of people and you hope things work out, because we've seen over the last five years there are some that have faded out and unfortunately, what I see is great players wasn't the best coach, right? I think that's what's going on.
Speaker 1:That's a great way to put it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go ahead and you bring up profit and loss statements. So we're part of the core. That's kind of like one of our main things understanding what a true profit and loss should look like. There's a big company here in San Antonio. I was going to buy into their franchise and thank God that I didn't, because I saw their profit and loss statement and I didn't see no profit. I just saw a loss.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So for me, when I started seeing, okay, well, I make more money than this brokerage and my overhead's a whole lot less, is it really worth it?
Speaker 2:So, so, those are kind of like those little pinpoints for agents where, like, maybe it's not the best thing, let me continue being the player, let me still perform like LeBron, and I'm not going to go and start being a coach or trying to coach because I haven't gone through my prime and I feel a lot of agents they're still like it's a pride thing too and I think too like, hey, we want to compete, we want to compete at a high level. We don't want to, you know, take our jerseys off just yet. We want to still play the game. But at the same time, there are different concepts where you can still reap the benefits for your other players, that are, your soldiers that are out there, that you're constantly pouring into while still playing the game at the same time. And I feel like that's where we are a little bit of a hybrid of that, where we can still play the game, and then we could also provide value for our agents as well as reap a small benefit from those agents as well.
Speaker 1:I like that Matter of fact. You mentioned P&L and I just had a conversation with the CFO of man Mortgage yesterday, and L and I just had a conversation with the CFO of man mortgage yesterday, Um, and we were talking about motivation and discipline. Um, they go hand in hand, but at the same time, you need them often. It's not something that, oh, I picked up some motivation and I'm going to run with that. Um, I told him it's like taking a bath or showering it's not required daily, but it's highly recommended. And he compared discipline and motivation to a P&L. I mean, he's a CPA by nature, so that's the way his brain thinks.
Speaker 1:So shout out Caleb Wilson I know he'll be watching this the concept and it made perfect sense. He was like, well, I don't know if you'll get this, but the P&L piece is like the discipline and your balance sheet is your motivation. At the end of the day. You want your balance sheet to be in the black all day long, but in order to get there, you've got to have your discipline, which is your P&L, your daily expenses, your ins and outs, to be able to know how it's going to stack up at the end. So I thought that was a pretty cool analogy and also a moment to shout you out brother, there you go. So that being the case, guys, what was your decision process on the progression of what you guys are doing and what you have built thus far in regards to? Is it time for me to become a broker? Is it not? Because we've got the idea these days of and I'll call it traditional versus new age brokerages. But we'll get into that a little bit down the road, but now let's stick to this.
Speaker 3:I think I'm feeling a lot of my happiness points with where I'm at, where I'm still in leadership. You know I'm still getting that for me, still running a P&L within my brokerage, and that is something that doesn't get talked about a lot, but that's what we're doing and it gives us that. But at the same time, we have the support, we have the leverage with Real where we're at and it just seems like it's the best of all worlds. I just don't see, personally, the reason that I need to go start from scratch. Get funds, investors. Let's do this from scratch, run a P&L. We're going to be in the red, maybe in the beginning for a while before we finally start.
Speaker 3:That's a lot versus right now. It's kind of plug and play. I took my company from a traditional brokerage, brought it over to the current brokerage, still running it and, if anything, have gained more income with what they offer. Just, you know I wasn't going to get this stock option, you know, previously and I wasn't going to get the revenue share. But I'm still able to run my organization how I want, right, and I still can have support. I just it. It's hard for me to to to change, to get that up.
Speaker 3:Because, again, my happiness points. I'm going to start with me first, happiness and I feel like I'm hitting all those voids. I'm hitting all those points right now.
Speaker 1:No, I have to agree. I mean you, you, you took your, your group from a traditional and then real quick shit got real huh yeah it did.
Speaker 2:So. The other thing too. I'll compliment Anthony on this a lot. He's trained up a whole lot of great producing agents and sometimes, whenever the agent outgrows the uniform, you have to let them fly. And we both felt that I said, hey, man, we're gonna continue building these teams, we're gonna continue building these agents, we're going to continue building these agents. But the concept is, if we could at least get 1% than nothing, it's better than nothing, right? So I like the group that we've made, as far as just the camaraderie that we bring together, but at the same time, I also like the fact that we can see our agents still succeeding, still representing the same brand, while we still knew that we played a big factor on their success.
Speaker 1:That's something that we've spoken about before. Matter of fact, sandra Rangel was who I had this conversation with, and we were talking about how much we spill into these people throughout the years and how much it hurts when they leave. Yeah, and that's that. And how much it hurts when they leave, and that's that. Whereas you guys now have the opportunity to continue to spill into these folks as much as you possibly can, and still, despite what their decision is to continue to stay under your wing or do their own thing and build their own, you're still going to get a piece of that and it's not going to affect them either. I think that's a pretty cool concept that that's going on there.
Speaker 3:And, I think, my inner child in this leadership game. It just is still fulfilled with the idea that, yes, you know you came here first, but I get to watch you grow and I want you to replicate me. We can finally say that without that pinch of the penny, in a lot of ways, right, and it's a real thing. It's a real conversation that, yes, we want to be happy and proud of everybody that leads, but even more so now. I can actually help you grow your brand and your team and actually we all win still, and so I like that part of it. I like leadership. I'm a little child in the game but I love it and I think if I can help someone be me, I'm doing something right. I like that. It's a legacy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that is a prime example of the evolution we were talking about in the beginning of this. Now you mentioned leadership, and me personally, I love the concept of leadership, being a leader. As a matter of fact, it's more rewarding personally to help someone and see them succeed than the money that you receive, but you still have to get paid for what you do, which shows your value, et cetera. But that idea behind do you have to be a leader in order to be a broker? And do you? If you are a leader, should you be a broker? And I think that that would be a good uh, yeah, no, I love it.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I, I. Uh, a title is just a title. In my opinion, the, the work that comes behind it, is something completely different. So I think when you talked about leadership right now, I felt like one of the biggest heartwarming moments that I've ever had was when I have a lot of these agents that come to me and say you've changed my life, and for me that's what we're in it for. And two realistically, I know a lot of great brokers out there that also have changed a lot of people's lives too, but as far as the compensation, there has never been a lot of compensation from that before. So now there is, but realistically, for us I feel that it's been a better how can I say this? There's been a better grasp as far as retention, just because of that, on how we can elevate our agents to be that next person, because they're also going to pay that forward to future agents too, and that's what we're in it for, yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1:And for those that are out there thinking that these types of evolution brokers, disruptor brokers, new age brokers, the idea that it's a pyramid scheme, the idea that it's a pyramid scheme Newsflash guys, everything in America is a pyramid scheme. It depends what level you're on. You can look at opinion. I prefer knowing what I'm getting myself into versus finding out surprise, you're at the bottom.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's a cool concept of what is going on there. Now, you didn't get a chance to answer on why you haven't decided to broker up.
Speaker 2:So when I so I was right there at that moment. So let me take you back to 2020. So COVID was happening.
Speaker 1:Cue the daydream music yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was in the process. I had a pretty large team at the time we were doing. We were doing about like over 50 million. I had like four agents and we were. We knew we didn't want to stay at where we're at because we were just spending too much money. So we were going to branch out and make our own brokerage and we were ready, like we had the name planned out on it.
Speaker 2:I get COVID random, randomly Right, and I think I got it either from a dealership or I got it from a uh, I was buying a car around that time. But, um, I ended up, uh, I saw something on social media and it was about real brokerage. It was a new company and before I kind of launched, created the LLCs for the brokerage, I just wanted to listen in. So I was listening to some reviews that were from like a year ago and this company was a lot smaller. So there's probably like 400 agents at the time when I had originally saw that video and two like you you know how you don't want to make that bad mistake, that you're like I don't want to jump into something. And then what if it doesn't plan out? Then I pretty much invested all this money, all this time and energy into like a startup Cause that's pretty much what real was back then.
Speaker 1:In addition, you've got people that are following you Correct, and that decision, or their lives, are contingent on your decision.
Speaker 2:So when we made the move, we had 56 deals under contract with our current brokerage and I told my team, I said, if they don't pay out, I will pay you personally. So I was all I was. I was scared because it was like over just as far as what I had to pay my agents was over $250,000 at that time. Yeah, so for me I was all like no, this has to work. So I had a really great conversation with um, the uh CEO, the president of our company at the time, um, now he's a owner and operator. Uh, tamir, um, and man, he, his, his energy is just so pure and I think that was one big thing that attracted me to them. So, so when we were in the process of making that decision, that conversation made so much sense and it was all about paying it forward. A lot of our core beliefs were exactly the same. So I was all like man, I could be the person that's having to deal with all these problems. I could be the person that has all this overhead. I could be the recruiter. I could be, you know, the accountant. I can be, you know, janitorial. Like you know, the list of a business owner becomes so much bigger. So and then I said you know what, if this is something that's going to be different, then I want to try it, I.
Speaker 2:But I asked Tamir in one condition. I said I was going to, I was going to switch over. In one condition I don't want it to be a recruiting frenzy, I don't want to be forced to recruit. And he said the coolest thing to me. He said, martin, if we just have recruiters, we don't have producers, and if we don't have producers, then we don't need those agents at our company. So every year we'll do an audit. Whoever's not selling, we'll send their license back to whatever commission.
Speaker 1:Ooh, I like that, that's cool.
Speaker 2:And he said we don't need numbers. And I turned around and I said, so, you guys are like warriors. Huh, they're like, yeah, we just want producing agents. And I said, kind of like Spartan, yeah, Like Spartan, like Spartan 300.
Speaker 2:And so that and two, we started seeing that a lot of the people that were really focused on production really liked this concept. So for me it was like that defining moment Do I go left, Do I go right? And I went right and I went right to real. So it just made sense for me personally as far as where my company was at, because before that I had trained up and there's a lot of big names that I've had either on my personal team or I've poured into them in a way that affected their business and I lost them, and I lost them to other brokerages. So I needed to have a concept where, if they were at my brokerage, they were going to go somewhere else, Like I would have lost 90% of all the agents that would have followed me to my brokerage already, and a lot of times it's just a matter of time.
Speaker 2:So so when I switched over, you know we started up, like Anthony, you know we had long conversations and to like you know, he's been a great business partner too as far as the growth. Like, we've kind of been all over the United States. You know sharing the word but at the same time we're not also a billboard, so we can't publicize what our company does do for us, and I think that's great, because there's no like sales, like, hey, you want to be a part of a growing company of producing agents that are focused on that? That's what we do and we also reward you for doing it.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you bring up a good point there, and it is the idea of shaking off all the extra that wasn't needed or the fluff that was being thrown out at you that you weren't using, you weren't benefiting from. And that was kind of the idea of eXp when they came on the scene, which was we only want solid agents, you don't need all the extra stuff. And it made sense when it first came out and you're going OK, so most things are cloud-based. Don't need a shop ahead of the game on that for sure. Um, and then the idea behind well, if you still need a little bit of training, need a little bit of leadership, well, you've got your team leader who's running your pod, so to speak, and taking that with you guys. I feel like since you came after eXp, you got to see where they failed and it allowed you to form your pods, your groups.
Speaker 1:So are you a broker? No, but do you have the responsibilities of a broker? You're damn right, you do. I mean, there's no question about that. You got your own PNLs, You've got your people under you that listen to you and will follow you to the end of the world, and if they happen to leave, whether that's on good terms, bad terms, it's time for them to fly the coop. Absolutely, that's okay. You encourage that behavior as well because, hey, you're a producer, we want you here. Let's keep it rolling, because when you do well, we all do well. What is it? A rising tide lifts all the ships. So that's a pretty cool concept and I can see why it was a pretty clear path to take. Going that way, Truly Okay. So we've got boop boop, boop, boop, boop working in a brokerage. We already talked about that. Let's go back to branding there we go we already talked about that.
Speaker 1:Let's go back to branding. There we go. You talked about branding earlier and I have been big on branding before I even knew what the concept of branding was. And since I was ahead on that concept, I preach it because it does work. You are correct. People would buy Sony TVs back in the day because Sony was the big, big dog. And that is the same with a soda brand. That is the same with a technology brand. Any of those things? Why? Because they do such a good job of branding. And branding is not just the name of your company, it goes deeper into what do you guys believe in? What is your culture look like? What are you willing to stand for or not stand for those type of things? Anthony, if you could because I know same concept you do a lot of video marketing. You do a lot of disrupting, just like I do. What are your thoughts on branding? How important is it and maybe some ways that you go about doing that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's my concept and I talk to agents all the time right in the field and that's one of the questions that I ask is what is your definition of brand? And a lot of times, like you said, they'll think logo, image, a very surface level stuff like image, logo, my website. And I tell them my concept of brand is it equals trust. So we need to go to how can we get the audience to trust us is with your brand. So if I go to your page right now and I look, does anything say you're any different from the person next to you? A lot of the times it's not no, I don't see how I can one recognize. Sometimes you don't even recognize someone's in real estate.
Speaker 3:I need you to step up to the plate on that one. But two, now that you're here in the game, how can some like think of you were buying a home or selling a home? How can I trust you if you're trying to attract agents and we're team leads? How can I trust that team lead or that broker owner? So brand equals trust to me. That's where I start with everybody of how we're going to do that, you know. The second thing would be originality. You know, don't just copy and paste what's out there, you know. Think for yourself and think who your audience is, because everybody's audience is different.
Speaker 3:You're right, right.
Speaker 1:My family knows different people than your family knows, different people, and we have a different sphere and a different circle, and that's another. And I don't mean to stop, but I have to, because something that you said right now is something that I want all realtors, all lenders to know is we wouldn't all be successful if there wasn't enough people out there that are different. We all bring something different to the table, and you guys we all bring something different to the table, and you guys listening all, bring something different to the table. Find your sphere. Then from your sphere, you're going to branch out, or spider web out into like-minded individuals that end up flocking to you because of what you stand for, what your brand actually means.
Speaker 3:So go ahead. That's awesome. It's the truth, you know, and it's a hot topic all the time because everybody says brand and again it's just surface level website, business cards, logo, and you know I'm over that conversation. Be original. Who is your audience? Identify that first right you can. I gave the concept this on our Monday meeting we can buy a steak at Walmart. They sell them. They sure do. They sell steaks at Walmart.
Speaker 3:I've never even been down that aisle, but if you're craving a steak, I might go to a butcher shop that specializes in steak, raw, fresh. Let's get it straight from the cow. I think if you specialize in something, you know your audience, you're going to have a lot more quality audience. Member come to you because you're creating trust with that audience yeah, right. And member come to you because you're creating trust with that audience yeah, right. And so we need to stay on brand. Make sure you don't get away.
Speaker 3:The agent chases the lead so many times. Right, there's a trend over here. The leads go to the trend, yeah, agents following the lead Instead, why doesn't the agent start the trend and now the lead follows the agent? I like that, yes. And so that's where we need to get with brand and again, I preach it every day. It's just, it's big. It's a hot topic right now because of the changes, and I know we're going to talk about it in a little bit, but your individuality and your brand right now is going to either skyrocket you or put you out of business, unfortunately. So step up to the plate, because it's time.
Speaker 1:I have to agree with that.
Speaker 1:Now, also to piggyback on what you're saying here and I wrote it down so I wouldn't forget because it is important there's a lot of folks out there and I'll be specific there's a lot of realtors and lenders out there that believe, if I just focus on my brand, with the marketing, with the logos, with the marketing material and I have all the stuff that that will get me to the next level.
Speaker 1:And I'm here to tell you that you need boots on the ground to parlay with that or it won't work at all. I've hired plenty of new to the business loan officers that will get in and think that their social media posts are going to get them business. And it's like, guys, you've got to be boots on the ground alongside your social media posts so that when people actually see it, they go oh, I know that guy. They were just in here giving a presentation, or that was the person that was trying to get that meeting with me or take me to that coffee or what have you, or that's the person that I saw closing those loans. Yeah, because you've got to have results to go alongside your brand, or your brand, doesn't mean shit in my opinion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think just just uh, you hit a topic earlier and I would say this too, that the trust with agents, specifically on our side of things, we see it out there that isn't there kind of subliminal hate sometimes for agents? Yeah, what, what do they do, why do they get paid and all these things, obviously, everything happening right now. I think we almost bottlenecked ourself in a little way. I've talked about that. Something that we do a lot is we only show successes, yep, and now you are only the successful person, because all people see that's right, when the person that's winning right now or is going to win right now, be vulnerable and show some losses, right. Be real, tell people how hard it is, right. Connect that human element again, right, even though this person works at USA and they're struggling today, you're struggling today at your job and you might relate on a level of. We both fail together and that's why I, like Mr Mark Jones, you are on the money.
Speaker 1:Mr Mark Jones, right, you are on the money. As a matter of fact, when I taught a social media class, I would start with guys, you've got to focus on the 80-20 rule. Fast forward, it's now 90-10, meaning post more personal stuff than you do business stuff, because if it's just business stuff, people are going to tune out. They've got plenty of realtors and lenders on their feed, trust me. And then it goes into the concept of don't just post your successes. People want to relate to you, and how the hell can anybody relate if it's all good news? I'm not saying air your dirty laundry out there, but let them know that you're human.
Speaker 1:Today was a rough day, but at the end of the day I'm still fucking going. You know they need to know that if you have a bad day, how you get through that bad day, what it looks like, do you go home and bury your head? Because some days we do, we do and some days we go. You know what? I don't have time for this. I'm going to fight through it and I think it is most impactful when people see your failures than when they see your successes. People relate to failures more than they do successes, because there are very few people that actually succeed in their own mindset. It takes a lot for somebody to say, oh, I've succeeded. In my opinion, I still haven't succeeded. I'm not retired, I'm not on all residuals, I'm not there yet. And the idea behind that is I want to be personal, I want to be relatable, and when you're talking branding, that's a part of it, in my opinion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so a hundred percent. Your losses hurt more than your wins. Feel good yeah that's so true.
Speaker 3:And so that's something as well, that we, we I've always stuck with that because, again, consumer marketing says I need to relate to you, I need to be relatable. It's not always about the home, sometimes it's not. It's about our relationship. That's right, and I do believe that let's just be vulnerable and be honest If we're going to be a good fit for each other. I want to be exactly who I am and I want you to know who that is and I want my brand to speak to that.
Speaker 3:I'm not a liar. This is how I am, this is how I work and, yeah, sometimes I just go home and you know, we have a day where I know I had a post recently where I put a comfort food for me at night was like watermelon and pineapple with some tajin on it, right, and it's the funniest thing that I posted all these houses, these, these things before. What everybody reacted to was that my childhood snack. You got my mouth watering. Now I need to go get that 10 o'clock at night, you know. So it's those relatable things that can sometimes build a connection and you wouldn't even think about it.
Speaker 1:That's so true. Now, before we get into our next topic, I want to talk to you, Martin, about your progression on the branding, because in my opinion, as an onlooker, I'm putting myself in the shoes of I don't know you at all. Yours was a little more quiet and in the field, but still grew your brand and in my opinion, it was more impactful that way, because when the branding started coming to light, more people associated themselves with those that have been helped by you and yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I took all last year off so I was kind of a ghost in a sense. I still put up some production but, yeah, okay, we had a baby girl and for me that was more important than anything, right? Um, so I I wasn't really able to be there so much for my other two boys. So, um, like, in a lot of our coaching sessions that we have with a lot of our agents, we talk about just time balance. You gotta, you gotta have a good life balance. Um, so when I disappeared, I kind of did disappear all last year and and, and that's why I wanted to come on the podcast and I want to start putting a little bit more context out there, because I kind of did, you know, fade away in a sense, but people still knew who I was as far as people were in industry.
Speaker 2:Um, so, so, realistically, when I started coming back and I started to rebrand myself, I wanted to brand myself with other like-minded individuals that I feel that a lot of our lives have a lot of similarities as far as our end goals, like what do we do it for, how we want to impact other families, how we want to give back to the community.
Speaker 2:So it's not just real estate, but it's just the overall lifestyle. Like, here's the one big takeaway for anybody listening is I, I, I? How do you find the balance? How do you find where you're a family man and then you're also a real estate professional, that you're 24, seven, right? That's kind of like the concept for a lot of us in the industry. So this is one big takeaway that I give to every single person, especially if they have teenagers or even kids that are 10 or whatever is dedicate one day out the week where they know that either mom or dad is going to be there on that day specifically and they're going to just put the phone down and they're just going to give you all their attention.
Speaker 1:That's something that I do now to this day.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, yeah. So those are like the best impacts for the kids, because those are the moments that you're going to remember and those are also the moments that are going to be remembered in the end of your journey, which is life. So, for me, I want to encompass that into either, if I'm talking to a family that either I haven't met for the very first time or I've been friends with them for 20 years, I want them to know that we could never be too busy. And two a lot of times we feel that unaccomplished because we're too busy, right? Or you know, we're spinning our wheels but we're not going anywhere. But those are the small impacts where you get to see other people having those family days, and they're super important, super valid. So you have to have a nice little balance.
Speaker 2:So, as far as my branding, I want people to know that, hey, when I dedicate my time to you, we're also taking that time away from our family, but at the same time, you're still my priority too. So whenever I'm with you, I'm with you. So same thing for agents, you know, and all the brokers too, whenever they dedicate time. If they have 100 agents and they dedicate 30 minutes to this one agent. They took that time away from everybody else.
Speaker 2:So in a sense of branding, I feel that just telling people exactly who you are up front it uncomplicates things. And then I'm pretty sure the longer we're in the business, the more people say hey, I know you're busy, but just if you got a quick minute and a lot of times, no, no, no problem, I got time, let's talk. If you got a deal or you got somebody I want to talk to, I'm never too busy. Somebody I want to talk to like I'm never too busy. And that that also has to be a concept, because whenever you are branding you got to put those structures and systems in place because if they think you're too busy, they're going to say hey, you know. I tried reaching out to Martin but he didn't respond. Let me go talk to Anthony, cause Anthony's doesn't show that he's that busy.
Speaker 1:As a matter of fact, um, that happened to me early in my career when I was. It was like I started rocket ship going, a lot of business coming in, and I would meet somebody that I got business from and I'm like, hey, where you been? And they're like oh, you're, you're too busy, you're getting busy. And at that point in time in my career I was like, well, shit, I'm not too busy. You guys don't know that I've got systems in place and this and that. But I'll get back to that here shortly, because I want to address the idea of balance, and I'm glad you said what you said, because I was going to call you a BS here in a minute, because I truly do not believe in a perfect balance not the people that we are, not the level that we're at. I do, however, believe in prioritization, of course, and, just like you said, I'm going to earmark this and that is dedicated to that. That is, in my opinion, what we go through on a daily basis and what we call balance. No, it's not on this pie chart. Tell me, is this equal halves of every Hell? No, hell, no, that's not even possible. When you are doing what we are doing, when you are, uh, when you have the goals, when you've got the drive, et cetera. It's just not possible Now the idea of hey, you're busy, I now respond and say, no, I'm prioritized, and right now you're the priority. Why? Because you're on the phone with me.
Speaker 1:My wife got a tattoo on her arm and I love it. It says wherever you are, be all there. And that's pretty much in a nutshell. What it means is prioritize your day, your month, your week what does it look like? And then stick to that part, kind of going back to the discipline aspect of it. But no, we're not too busy, we are prioritized. We wouldn't have gotten to this level if we were always too busy. I mean, that sounds like chaos and I hear it often. I know you guys too. Every time your phone rings, the person says I know you're busy, no, I'm prioritized. You may see it as busy because you haven't had the training, coaching et cetera, but now I'm here to tell you that my time is yours right now.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. There's one thing, and it was at the conference and our president Sharon had said be where your feet are.
Speaker 1:Same concept, right. Same concept, that's right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think something that resonates with me, what y'all are saying and this is being vulnerable, right, talking about our losses, you know, throughout my success, I mean, there was a lot of failures, and a lot of that was at home. You know, and I think a lot of us don't speak on it. It probably is a real conversation at home. You know you're so busy, you think you're the best, you're trying to make this big old company, this big old brand, 10, 12 hours, 14 hours, but what happens is you lose touch with those that care about you and at home, and and you know I've lost in their relationships already, you know, multiple times. You know, because I'm so career, strong and driven, and those are the things we don't talk about. So, even now, currently, with my balance of life, I don't actually like when I see agents or you know, hey, work and work until midnight for my clients, and I know that indirectly it looks cool. Right now you want the clicks and the views and everything that you're the coolest agent ever. But I know what indirect pattern that's going to start leading to and I've been there and I wish they wouldn't think that that's something to glorify. Do not work past the time and keep your balance alive.
Speaker 3:We had a strong meeting this Monday. Actually, shout out Mandy Smith. I'm going to take one of her quotes. But she said you know the person that you say yes. To just remember that, yes, you were telling somebody no in that same moment. It's true, right, it is true so. So I've always believed in that as well, too. You need to choose your time, choose who you're hanging out with, choose your goals. Be intentional, intentional and who you're hanging out with. Choose your goals, be intentional, intentional. And you know, really, really put in what you want to do for the day, because you are telling no to a lot of people. When you decided to go to that little mixer or that little thing or burning the midnight oil, because you're on the MLS till 12 midnight, you know we're not doctors. Nobody's going to die on call, that's right.
Speaker 2:We only get 24 hours in a day, so so I wanted to jump on that because I was that same person. So I was the person that it was Thanksgiving and I would be at our office cause I didn't want to be at home and they're going to ask you to do stuff, right, but I, I, I didn't. I didn't get the concept because I felt, because I was active, I was busy, and I was busy was giving a perception. That's right. But there's a saying and I can't remember who who did so. If you find whoever quoted it, quote it. But he said if you give yourself a month to clean your room, it will take you exactly a month to clean your room. You'll procrastinate. I got it, but if not, you can get it done in one hour.
Speaker 1:It's your choice on how quick you want to do it, it's called procrastinating on purpose Correct and the idea behind that I've talked about it numerous times through my coaching, through my coach. The idea was you've got too much on your plate. You do not need to do everything. You need to figure out what you can automate, what you can delegate and what you can eliminate from your process altogether, and that, in itself, is exactly what you're talking about here. Yeah, something's going to go by the wayside because you're choosing something else, but that something that went by the wayside hopefully is not something that is going to alter what your end goal is, because you've prioritized, you've made sure that you're not procrastinating on purpose, because you are 100% right, it's human nature. You give us matter of fact.
Speaker 1:I think of when I attended college, didn't graduate, but I attended. It's like, hey, we got a test on Wednesday, great. And it's Monday, I've got two days. I don't even start studying until midnight on the day before. You know why? I don't know. That's just what it is Um same thing with the cleaning of the room. You got a month to do it, great, I'll do it on day 30.
Speaker 2:Exactly and and to you know what Anthony just said right now, it was kind of like that defining moment that I was talking about earlier. It's like when you say yes to someone and shout out to Mandy, you're saying no to somebody else. I felt I never got that like on why I chose to go the real route than a real broker like a regular brokerage. But that makes a lot of sense now because I had to make a choice right there. I either said yes to building this company, spending all this money, time, energy you know they said a rocket ship uses more fuels on liftoff than in space Right? So you know we were going to take stuff away from other avenues of our life either family, friends, et cetera. So you know, now I see that it's like yes, I did say no to one thing so that way I could have the family balance then. So sometimes there's different things that's more important than money. And once you have money you're like ah well, it's cool to like have it, but at the same time it's always best to have.
Speaker 1:I think and I don't want to downplay the concept of making money, but I think, once you have had a taste of making money and know how to make it the right way, you can now make money on your terms. And I think that is what needs to be pretty strong in regards to this, this segment here. Because, um, it's tough for agents right now. It's tough for lenders right now. They're they're like do I work a second job? What do I do? Do I dig my heels in and just wait this sucker out? Well, I mean, even folks like myself who built the team, had the branches, et cetera, I'm now producing. Why? Because that's what it takes. We know how to do that. I can jump back in those shoes and show you guys, everything that I preach I'm about to practice right now.
Speaker 2:And it comes back on leadership. So you just mentioned that too. You wouldn't do something that you wouldn't tell somebody else to do, a hundred percent. And I think every one of us is in that same that, those same shoes. Because you know, when it comes from broker and agent, like it's kind of hard to say, hey, you know, go knock on 50 doors on a Saturday when it's 115 degrees. Then, hey, I'm going to go knock on those doors with you. That's right. You know the concept of what, uh, what personal branding should be, should be all right, cool, I'm going to do what I say I'm going to do and I'm going to tell you what works.
Speaker 1:So, they say that, um, those who can't do teach. I call bullshit on that too. Um, simply because the best teachers have done, you can use real life experiences. You can you? You relate to that person that's sitting in front of you asking for advice. Why? Because you can reach in your toolbox and pull out that memory of that time that you busted your ass and show them what it felt like, what it looked like, et cetera, and they can feel that a lot quicker than you jumping into a book and saying, okay, well, step one. Yeah, no, that's a bunch of noise.
Speaker 2:So how often now and this is just kind of like a side question yeah keep going. How often do you feel that the market shifts in a way where you have to adjust, because what happened 10 years ago, what marketing looked like and branding looked like back then, is not what branding looks like or marketing looks like now.
Speaker 1:I would agree and disagree only because I was one of the first to do the social media marketing. Back then, 2012 was when I started Nobody was doing Facebook posts, closing pictures. I did it. Why? Because I started doing it when I was in the auto industry and it worked. I sold. I was like, okay, people are actually calling me off of this Craigslist ad and this Facebook post. So I took that concept moving forward.
Speaker 1:Now what has changed? It switched from posts to reels. It switched from um posting every day to posting three, four times a day. It switched from uh, I can just record or I can just make a cool picture and put it out there, to maybe I need to make sure that this audio is right and maybe I need to edit this, that kind of stuff. So it's a little bit more time consuming, but I still think the basic philosophy of marketing and sharing your value and trying to reach those spheres that essentially you can relate with is still the same, in my opinion, and it's still the same channel as well, because back then, social media was still social media just like it is today. We're just using it differently, yeah, yeah. So that's good shit, guys. Jc.
Speaker 1:What are we at time-wise, we have time to talk about NAR 54 minutes and 26 seconds, okay you guys got another 15, 20 minutes in, okay, so now that we have given you all the goods, we're going to talk about the market, what we're seeing right now. We're going to talk about you guys' perspective and perception of the NAR settlement. I've had this discussion multiple times. I'm obviously not a realtor my wife is and friends with plenty of brokers and have gotten to see probably more than most in regards to behind the scenes on what this means, how it's going to affect you guys, and also played the devil's advocate on how it could be good, how it could be bad, Um, what actually has to happen in order for prices to come down due to this ruling, et cetera. Um, I want to hear you guys' thoughts on this, because I've got my two cents and I can always play devil's advocate.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think just understanding what happened in our settlement right is step one. Yeah, we had a speech about this the other day. I think it's still just. If you're just going to watch the news and hear the hot take, the fear mongering, you're going to get skewed a little bit about what happened right. So, number one, the decoupling of commission. Just simply put agents and we did a lot of us did this in a part of speech that you're going to pay us a listing broker commission and I, listing broker, will pay the buyer side broker commission out of that. That. No longer we're saying that you cannot. It is always up to the seller of how much they pay to each brokerage. It's a small change in verbiage, but it is a big change in verbiage in a lot of ways because it took the power away from the seller is the reason why this happened.
Speaker 3:I think people did it indirectly. I don't think there was ill intention or bad. It was just easier to say, maybe sometimes. And I think it got caught up in a time where, guess what, every house was selling. There was 50 people outside of an open house and, yeah, why would I pay a buyer? You know this is not the same market. That was a small crowd of data that somebody decided to go up and say you know what? This is not fair. Why did I pay a buyer's agent out? But again, are we in that same market? No, that was a weird time that we were in when this all came about and we're not even there right now. But yet someone's making a ton of money off of NAR, right. So that's my take on that that we're not there again and it stinks that we're having to make these new, I guess, ways of life and adjustments. So that was one decoupling of the commission.
Speaker 3:Your verbiage needs to change Practice. It Get with your team, get with your broker. It's not going to be a tough thing, it's a small change. The second thing is coming July 1st, no longer will there be commission presented on the MLS, right, right, but you can still call the listing broker. Are you guys paying a commission? They can still be put on marketing flyers. You can still be put on your website. We're still going to know if a seller's paying buyer agent commissions. It's just, it cannot be on the MLS. So those two main changes.
Speaker 3:Now how do we adapt Again practice? And this is, of course, going to change and I know we're probably alluding to this, but there's going to be a huge, a huge drop off of some folks that are not able to have that conversation. What is the responsibility of a listing agent? I would probably practice that. What is the responsibility of a buyer's agent? Okay, because if we're not going to pay the buyer's agent, the listing agent is doing both jobs. That's right, both roles for essentially less. If the seller wants to say I shouldn't have to pay that. But the listing agent's job was never to find a buyer, yeah Right.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean okay. So number one, I agree with what you're saying thus far. You guys tell me before I go into this next piece Sure, was it realtors being lazy that ended up getting us to where we are with this?
Speaker 2:So, so I would tell you this and I see it even in my team, the brokerage they will wait to get buyers reps until like the week of closing, wow. So I and I can just imagine everyone everywhere else Yep, and it's really the disclosures. So whenever the buyers are finally reading it, it's already when they're already under contract, and you know that. That's that's where all the shifting started happening.
Speaker 1:So and I don't think that that was due to them trying to hide anything. I really don't at all. I think it had to do with I'm going through the motions and those motions are speeding up, so it's just something that they should know. We did have order takers Mark. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3:I love that word. Let's go back again to COVID. Okay, the world changed. Guess what everybody was doing.
Speaker 2:On their phone.
Speaker 3:On their phone. That's right. Guess what every agent was doing Selling a ton of homes. Interest rates were low, Prices were getting reduced. Builders are paying all these commissions, Sellers everything's sold. That's right. Guess what that person on the couch was like? Wow, I could do that. They make it look easy. It was a different time, that's right. So we go on that. Now we have.
Speaker 3:I know, when I got my license five years ago, we had 8,000 agents in our market San Antonio. We had 16,000 before January 1st of this year. Now we have 12,000 after this first quarter. This is a fall off already. But that is crazy to me. What happened is we showed all of our wins. Like I said earlier, we bottlenecked. We showed only our wins, none of the losses. People thought they can do the full duties of the agent, so people were listing homes and just it's sold. But now, when it takes actual work, I am not mad at the seller for questioning why should I pay you and they should have a value preposition? That is ready to go. Why do I need you? You need to have that ready to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think transparency is like super important too. So I had a client. He was like, hey, we got to do something about your commission. I said, well, do you even know what it costs me to run my business per each transaction? He said no. He said, well, that kind of plays a big factor. I said, for each deal that I close, it usually costs me anywhere from $1,800 to $2,200 per each deal. The average agent, or I would say even 98% of agents in the entire United States, they don't know what their cost per deal is. And a lot of the people that do create profit and loss statements, they do. You have to, they don't. If you don't, you're already behind.
Speaker 2:So I was speaking to this new seller and he was coming from a different broker. He's all like, yeah, no, he didn't want to haggle with me on commission. I put a really nice product out there and it sells by itself. I said, okay, no, that's great. I'm glad that you believe in your product. Because I believe in your product, we're going to believe in the price. And then, two, you got to believe on whatever you're going to pay. An individual is worth that money that you're going to pay. And if you felt that that individual didn't deserve to make so much money because they didn't put in that effort, then that's a self-belief and then I think that's a great way to combat the value of how much should an agent get paid for a transaction, absolutely and going super basic.
Speaker 1:On this next little piece here, I believe that it was more of a reminder than a change Of course and that I thought of on my own this next piece I did not. So Steve Collins I had him here recently and we had a fucking phenomenal conversation. That guy is top notch people and we went through an example. He said, mark, we were finally at the end. He said do you mind if I go through what it should look like when a listing agent is meeting with a potential seller? Go for it, yeah. So he basically articulated the concept of I am going to try and sell your home and charge you 6% for it.
Speaker 1:Now my full intention is to find you a buyer for this list. It get the photos, everything, so you don't have to worry about it. But I will bring an example of Huck Finn. Mom tells him hey, you can go out and play after you paint that fence. Huck Finn says well, that's going to take me four hours to do that. I won't have time to play. Well, that's going to take me four hours to do that. I won't have time to play. Maybe let me get Tiny Tim over there to chop this up with me in half, and mom's going to give me a hundred bucks to do it. So if you do half, I do half, I'll give you 50 bucks.
Speaker 1:What's wrong with that deal? So you, in turn, seller, are benefiting from this. You are going to pay me 6%. What's? My duties just got cut in half, so what's wrong with me rewarding the other agent that brought you the buyer and chopped half my responsibilities, duties, efforts, et cetera right down the middle and I went dude, why aren't people talking about it that way? Is it not enough practice? Do they not believe in that concept? Because that's what it really is. And it was so layman that it was like wow.
Speaker 2:I think, where it comes down to it, I think it's more pride and hey, I got to listen, I got to listen, I got to listen, now I get to control it. So maybe that might have been the thing where they don't want to give recognition to the buyer's agent. Sure, bringing that client, that might be a good point.
Speaker 1:That's a good point. So, that being the case, with the ruling, that, in my opinion again and I'm going to start saying this versus the other this reminder of how you guys are supposed to be doing business, how do you think that that is going to affect our market, both from the buyer side, the seller side and you guys' side? Let's go through that real quick.
Speaker 3:You know, buyer side it's going to change a little bit, right, if I guess. Maybe start with the seller side If sellers do think because the question is already coming up a lot If sellers do think I can save more money or make more profit if I just hire the listing agent to do all the work, right, and we don't explain and have that value proposition that this is my responsibilities and that's their responsibilities as the buyer agent and you should budget for commission from them because they're going to be doing a lot of work to attract as well to this house, not just here. Right Again, rising tide lifts off boats. We need to partner with buyer brokerages and things like that. But if there is a situation where that does happen, where there's no commission towards the buyer's side, buyer's agent now has to have that conversation. So now there's more layers to your work, correct? Hey, I'm not getting paid from the seller side, so I would like to have you sign this agreement that you're going to pay me a part of us closing or doing this deal.
Speaker 3:Naturally, we know what's going to happen, mark. We already have issues with borrowers having a lot of cash to close. We live in San Antonio, guys. Nothing against us Born and raised proud. In San Antonio, guys, nothing against us. Born and raised proud Statistics fourth lowest credit score city in the whole nation.
Speaker 3:We work so passionately with our buyers that it is tough to just get that extra few thousand, much less 3% sometimes, which is what the unwritten rule of what we were kind of getting. Nothing is set in stone, but that was just about so. Now that conversation comes up from the buyer's agents, they didn't have to have that conversation as much. There's going to be a fade out there. I think that's the result of what we're getting at is there's going to be some fade out of the folks that don't know to have that value preparation conversation. I know, even on your side and you can probably speak on this, but if we were to try to put anything into the loan side right and someone wants to be creative and say, hey, well, our commissions can go maybe into the sale, I'm going to blow y'all's mind.
Speaker 1:Nobody's asked me that yet, okay, yeah Well, I've heard I might blow your mind in a way that you're probably going to go. Oh really, having many of these conversations thus far, that believes, if you, agent, think that we should start rolling your commissions into the loan on top of the fact that we've already had our reckoning.
Speaker 3:We don't make commissions?
Speaker 1:We absolutely have. And, in addition, it came with regulations on top of regulations. It wasn't this, nar, what you should do. No, this is what you have to do. The reminder, and you better do it every. This is what you have to do.
Speaker 1:The reminder and you better do it every time or you don't have a license anymore. I think that that is something that realtors need to look at themselves and go okay, we've probably got to find another way. Why there are many loans that your borrowers have to use in order to qualify for X property that already have funding fees rolled into them, upfront mortgage insurance rolled into them. So now we're preaching this idea of homeownership and gaining equity and building legacies, but yet I'm going to sneak this 3% in here. Yep, I don't. I can't get on that. When this first started, I was the first one to go. How can we get this rolled into the commission? Blah, blah, blah into the loans too much. Now I'm going. Is that right?
Speaker 3:It's back to the reminder thing Again the the, the value of the agent. If we just can get rid of this whole potential theory crafting and just go back to the conversation as specifically, even with listing agents, how are we presenting this to the seller to make sure that everybody understands? In order to sell your property, we need to have a maximum effort in a team environment here, Right, Right, and that is what needs to be, you know, needs to be done.
Speaker 1:And when it happens, because it's probably going to happen now, when it, when it happens, may not be overnight. These things tend to take time. It's kind of a herd thing type mentality, because it really doesn't happen until the listing or till the sellers start getting the idea that they can do that. Then, when they can do that, it's probably going to go from six to five or four. I think it should not go any lower than that ever, in my opinion, because you guys work your ass off. But that being the case, then it's going to be up to the listing agent to go. Do I split this down the middle? Do I keep the three? Do I give the one? And is that going to affect the buyer's agents on the properties that they're showing their actual buyers in that regard? So I think what they are doing is creating more issues by doing this. In addition, were they not the ones that were fighting for no more dual agencies? And now, all of a sudden, we're like, oh, there's the tail, we're about to catch. It Makes zero sense to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I so going back to your uh, your questions about what's going to happen, um, I feel like we're going to have a shortage of inventory, especially for the next 12 to 18 months. Yeah, there will be a shortage of inventory. So because of that do I see prices going up today? I don't know if y'all follow, but May 1st the airing of this podcast, dr Horton is doing a price increase when interest rates also did go up last week. So realistically, people are seeing that there are still a lot of buyers coming and there's a shortage.
Speaker 2:Yesterday I had a listen appointment with one of my clients in Bernie and when we sold her that house originally this was probably like less than nine, 10 months ago there was 106 inventory in that community. Ago there was 106 inventory in that community. When I ran the comps. Nine months later there's 40. So that cut in half. There's less builders building in that same community. But the prices did not elevate, they did not go down. Yeah, where in a lot of communities they did go down. So I told her I said look, what one builder decided to do in here is they reduced all the prices they took like a hundred thousand $. Said, look, what one builder decided to do in here is they reduced all the prices they took like a $100,000, $80,000 haircut. Yeah, I said, if we don't want to use those as comps, let's wait another six months. We no longer use those as comps and we'll continue to elevate the actual price.
Speaker 2:So just because it's, you know, their right moment to sell doesn't mean that it's the right moment to sell. Yeah, and a lot of times maybe even prolonging it might also be a thing. So if I'm looking in a crystal ball, as far as Martin's crystal ball, I feel that there is going to be more business for producing agents like us or like the people that are watching, and there's going to be less agents that are actually going after the same business. So, as far as where you stagger your business, it's still going to be less agents that are actually going after the same business. So, as far as where you stagger your business, it's still going to be there. You're still going to be able to make more than enough money and then, as long as you disclose that this bottle of water costs a dollar, and then that's exactly what you're going to tell your sellers.
Speaker 2:Right, you know? Because when you're in that eight $900,000 price point, seeing 6% on 900,000 and you're looking at $54,000 on a property they lived in for six months, nine months. Yeah, it's kind of a hard pill to swallow. So you gotta make those adjustments and I think if you get to adapt with whatever market it is, you're gonna be successful. I agree with that. You also gotta see what's gonna come in the next six months, 12 months, 18 months, etc.
Speaker 1:I like that. You said that and that was coming from a top producing leader in our industry. Because all of those out there that I'm seeing on social media that are replying with the I'm not lowering my commissions, these are my standards, I have value and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, guess what? Your value just got reduced and the market has spoken, and that's what's going to happen in the future as we proceed. And if you don't adjust, if you don't make those modifications to your business, hey, if your expenses are too high and you can't get by with two and a half commission or 2%, whatever the case, if you're the one selling the house or listing the house, et cetera commission or 2%, whatever the case, if you're the one selling the house or listing the house et cetera.
Speaker 2:Maybe you need to look back at your P&L. Yeah, and and too and this is just for everybody Everybody's going to put their spoon in your drink or in your bowl, however you want to take a look at it. So I had, I had a. I had a client. Their mom was also a real estate agent in a different state and she, like interrogated me on why their kids, after 12 months of living in their house, were only walking away with like $3,000. I said, oh, they didn't tell you the full story. That's if we price the house up $25,000.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Wow, wow. Well, that being the case I mean people because of the pandemic, like you were saying, it skewed everything. Real estate turned into a get rich scheme when it was never intended to be that ever it was intended to. Matter of fact, why the hell do we offer 30 year loans? There's a reason for that your, your intention is to stay in this home long term, for five years and luckily, because of demographically where we live in the United States, we haven't seen many drawbacks in our values. Matter of fact, you mentioned Bernie. Fun fact about Bernie Bernie has never gone backwards in property value as a whole.
Speaker 1:You look, go to the CAD Kindle. Cad any property you see, always. Cad any property you see, always. That being the case, you can't just buy a property and think you're going to make some money next year after selling it. What are you doing? And in those cases, is it in the best interest of the agent to tell them the truth and say, hey, you might as well just hold onto this for an investment property so you can build a little bit more equity and then sell it at the right time, versus making your 3% commission to make a sell, seeing that seller walk away with nothing?
Speaker 2:Correct, and two in preparation. People are going to put their spoon in the bowl. Be prepared, have your value proposition. You got to click the switch right away. It doesn't matter if you're in front of your kids or in another listen appointment. If somebody calls you and then puts you on the spot, you got to be ready. That's right. So that's right.
Speaker 1:Well, guys, this has been a phenomenal conversation. I knew it was going to be good. I didn't know it was going to be that good. We talked about quite a bit here and we're able to dig in our brains and kind of bring that to the forefront so the folks out there can see from true professionals that know what the hell they're doing, um, what is potentially to come. We don't know the future, as Martin was saying, he looked in his crystal ball, um, but, uh, his crystal ball sometimes tells him some wrong information, just like mine does and Anthony's, you know. But the one thing that I believe we have in common is we don't stop at failure, because the true failure is when you quit or give up, and I think that that message rings clear and is very obvious with the gentleman that I'm here today with. So you guys want to add anything before we cut this thing off? Anthony, you got anything.
Speaker 3:I embrace it. I told someone the other day hey, silver lining, I kind of like the changes. I'm not going to lie, you know it does. It does Reminder, reminder. I like these reminders because it is true I got into this industry five years ago. It's not like I've been doing it 20 or 10 like some, but I saw the laziness, I saw why I outpace so many people in such a short time. Yeah there, why I outpaced so many people in such a short time, there was a reason. It was because people were not treating the job with responsibility, like they should have, and they weren't treating it like a true business. It was very much pay, pay, pay. And I saw it. And so I think I've outpaced as an example and that's why I love it even more, because we're going to have another hump that we're going to probably bypass another layer of other folks, unfortunately, hump that we're going to probably bypass another layer of other folks, unfortunately, in our own industry. But at the same time, if you're going to stick around with us, you're going to fail forward with us.
Speaker 3:We just talked about a couple of items. Get your brand to equal trust, not that you just have a cool logo. Get your value propositions going. Have a menu of value? Ooh, I like that. A menu of value. If you're going to be questioned on your listing prices and things like that, what does someone get if they have that? Have your stats ready, right? Like I know, we're confident. We keep selling every listing above market value. We keep selling above price per square footage. I have that data. So you're worried about our commissions, but yet I can net you more on average. That's what our team does. So you know, let's do some research before we have the conversation and I just I embrace it. I think we're going to be completely fine. There was already 16,000 agents, went down to 12, but yet the same names are the same ones producing. That's right. We have the same folks around us that are weird how that happens right, so I love it.
Speaker 3:That's my take on it, and I love that we're talking about it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think we should Absolutely Martin what you got.
Speaker 2:So for me, like I love that Anthony brought that up because it's finding the people you're going to war with, Because real estate, in a sense, it's the nicest war we're ever going to be a part of but being able to collaborate with other like-minded individuals that are hey, Anthony, I need you Shoot Moments, notice, Like today. I reminded Anthony like 45 minutes before the podcast hey, just a reminder. And he's like, oh, shoot, that's today. And he jumped into action. And a lot of times there's people are like well, they'll make any excuse. Oh, I can't do it.
Speaker 2:He had a closing this morning, yeah. So as far as getting with like-minded individuals, being able to grow in a great positive way, like you got to surround yourself with those same individuals and I'm glad to be here with all three of you guys because I feel like we all have the same purpose is let's create as much value for the next generation or that next person. And maybe one thing from this podcast is a good gold nugget that they could take back into their business and say all right, I was impacted because of that segment.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. And for those of you listening, uh, martin is not crazy. We do have JC here. That's behind the ones and twos, uh, so, yeah, there are three um gentlemen, I would love to have you back for another one. I think that, uh, you guys pick another topic, because the um ability to be transparent and the um the uh, not cockiness, the other word the confidence in what you guys and how you guys are articulating this and the passion that you have for what you do shines through. And and it is um. I love being able to talk to people that know their shit. Why? Because I'm not here to convince you. I'm just going to tell you like it is and and like it or leave it. That's what it is. Yeah, um, we keep it real, mark, Absolutely, I like that. See, uh-huh Um guys, gals, they them, uh. Thank you for tuning in. I hope you really got something out of this and I'm going to go as far as to say that that was the best conversation I've had all year, and I've had quite a few Um. I really appreciate the guests and I really appreciate you guys for continuing to support the channel. Um, if you are getting something out of this, make sure to like, subscribe, share with a friend. We are also on Apple, Spotify and all other podcast platforms. If you don't have time to watch our pretty faces on screen, you can always listen while you're in the car, in the shower or maybe in the shitter. That being the case, we will catch you on the next one.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Key Factors Podcast, where knowledge meets ambition in the fast-paced world of real estate and mortgage. I'm your host, mark Jones, bringing you the latest insight, trends and expert advice to navigate this dynamic property market. In each episode, we dive deep into the heart of the industry, dissecting market movement, exploring investment strategies and unlocking the secret to real estate success. Whether you're a seasoned professional, an aspiring investor or simply looking to stay ahead of the curve, this is the ultimate guide to making informed decisions in the world of property and real estate. So grab a seat and let's uncover the key factors that make all the difference. Welcome to Key Factors Podcast. Let the journey begin, thank you.
