Have you ever wondered if a career switch could lead you to unexpected success? This episode features riveting accounts from Ben Sutton and Lindsey Shelton, who found their callings within the mortgage realm after leaving their previous jobs. Their stories, rich with adaptability and perseverance, remind us that it's never too late to find your niche in a fluctuating market. We also peel back the curtain on the often-misunderstood world of real estate advertising. The conversation gets real about the ethical challenges of social media marketing, the confusion surrounding temporary buy downs, and the paramount importance of transparency in the mortgage process.
As the landscape of the mortgage industry shifts, we confront the alarming decline in licensed loan officers and its ramifications. Our guests divulge the survival tactics they've employed to ride the waves of change, from mastering social media to the indispensable role of mentorship. We dissect compliance complexities and the balance between prudent professional conduct online and the casual nature of platforms like LinkedIn and Twitter, offering a waypoint for those navigating the digital seas of finance.
Lastly, the episode underscores the symbiotic relationship between realtors and mortgage professionals, where integrity and collaboration become the cornerstone of a thriving practice. We impart essential advice for lenders and realtors, advocating for a stance against misinformation and unethical practices, ensuring the provision of impeccable service to clients. Whether you are a seasoned property pundit or just dipping your toes in the vast ocean of real estate, join us for a compelling exploration of the mortgage industry with insights from those who've charted its depths.
Key Factors Podcast is Powered by ReviewMyMortgage.com
Host: Mark Jones | Sr. Loan Officer | NMLS# 513437
If you would like to work with Mark on your next home purchase or as a partner visit iThink Mortgage.
Have you ever wondered if a career switch could lead you to unexpected success? This episode features riveting accounts from Ben Sutton and Lindsey Shelton, who found their callings within the mortgage realm after leaving their previous jobs. Their stories, rich with adaptability and perseverance, remind us that it's never too late to find your niche in a fluctuating market. We also peel back the curtain on the often-misunderstood world of real estate advertising. The conversation gets real about the ethical challenges of social media marketing, the confusion surrounding temporary buy downs, and the paramount importance of transparency in the mortgage process.
As the landscape of the mortgage industry shifts, we confront the alarming decline in licensed loan officers and its ramifications. Our guests divulge the survival tactics they've employed to ride the waves of change, from mastering social media to the indispensable role of mentorship. We dissect compliance complexities and the balance between prudent professional conduct online and the casual nature of platforms like LinkedIn and Twitter, offering a waypoint for those navigating the digital seas of finance.
Lastly, the episode underscores the symbiotic relationship between realtors and mortgage professionals, where integrity and collaboration become the cornerstone of a thriving practice. We impart essential advice for lenders and realtors, advocating for a stance against misinformation and unethical practices, ensuring the provision of impeccable service to clients. Whether you are a seasoned property pundit or just dipping your toes in the vast ocean of real estate, join us for a compelling exploration of the mortgage industry with insights from those who've charted its depths.
Key Factors Podcast is Powered by ReviewMyMortgage.com
Host: Mark Jones | Sr. Loan Officer | NMLS# 513437
If you would like to work with Mark on your next home purchase or as a partner visit iThink Mortgage.
Welcome to Key Factors Podcast, where knowledge meets ambition in the fast paced world of real estate and mortgage. I'm your host, mark Jones, bringing you the latest insight, trends and expert advice to navigate this dynamic property market. In each episode, we dive deep into the heart of the industry, dissecting market movement, exploring investment strategies and unlocking the secret to real estate success. Whether you're a seasoned professional, an aspiring investor or simply looking to stay ahead of the curve, this is the ultimate guide to making informed decisions in the world of property and real estate. So grab a seat and let's uncover the key factors that make all the difference. Welcome to Key Factors Podcast. Let the journey begin. Welcome back to another episode of Key Factors Podcast. I'm your host, mark Jones, and we are powered by ReviewMyMortgagecom, the largest index of mortgage programs in the nation. And today we've got an episode that I've been looking forward to for about two weeks. We've got some insight from experts that I know and trust regarding some misinformation, some social media marketing that we believe is probably toting the line of right and wrong. But without further ado, let me introduce my guest.
Speaker 1:Today. I've got Ben Sutton. How are you, ben? I'm good, mark, how are you Doing well? And then I've got Lindsey Shelton. How are you?
Speaker 2:Doing well. How are you?
Speaker 1:Doing very well.
Speaker 2:Glad to be here.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. At the beginning of the show I like to give folks a moment to tell your story where you came from, how you got in the business kind of your journey, so that the folks out there know exactly who they're getting their info from, allowing them to understand what an expert you are. So who wants to start?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll go first. All right, ben, what's up? Awesome, glad to be here. So I'm going on 10 years in the mortgage business now. And I always say that I stumbled into the business. I think a lot of us did.
Speaker 3:It wasn't really something I planned for. I actually waited tables before I got into the mortgage business and it was either become a bartender or follow this opportunity. I had to get in the mortgage business, so I moved up to Dallas and got into it and kind of learned everything I could from a good friend of mine and worked most of my career in retail. It wasn't until about four months ago I made my way over to the wholesale side. Not much of a difference, in my opinion. Still doing the same thing, still helping families, getting people into homes and growing a small team here in San Antonio. And, yeah, just looking forward to continuing to grow and I'm just, I love this industry and what it's done for me.
Speaker 1:I'm here, man, I appreciate it. And I met you years ago at what was that Joe's Crab Shack. I was trying to do some recruiting. Back then Willys Was it Willys? Yeah, willys right there on 281. And I was just super impressed. Back then you were newer into the business and had the right head on your shoulders and I knew at some point you were going to do something pretty awesome. And you're doing that. You're walking the walk and talking the talk, so it's nice to have you on the show man. So, lindsay, what's up? Girl? Hey, how you doing, I'm doing okay. Tell us about yourself. You are here.
Speaker 2:So I agree. You know we kind of stumble into this thing. So I was actually a teacher, Okay, Prior to coming into mortgage. I graduated from a kind of word back in 2010,. Got a job right away, went and taught sixth grade my first year, fifth grade and then ended up in fourth grade. So I taught for almost seven years.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So then life events happened. I got married very young, was married in the military, lived overseas for a couple years, so just kind of have lived a crazy life. Fast forward a little bit, teaching. We ended up going through a divorce, unfortunately. So I found myself in a place where, you know, wow, I felt like I did all the right things. But unfortunately, teaching is just not enough. So I found myself working two jobs because I'm just that person Like I'm going to make it, I can do this. I was still young, with three very young children at the time, so I worked at a restaurant too at night. So I would teach all day, work all night, and, you know, god just blessed me. Then I actually have a twin sister, which I'll get to here in just a second. She actually stumbled into the business and Cornerstone Homelending actually hired her. I think she was around 21 years old at the time Okay, with no experience. So she got in the business before you.
Speaker 1:She got in the business before me.
Speaker 2:So I remember, like not even knowing what she was really doing, just because, even though we're so close, we were at this time in life where she was doing this journey. I was married, you know, living overseas, so I didn't know exactly what it was that she did. So, you know, fast forward again. I. She's like Lindsay, you got to stop doing this, because I know what you're wanting and you're not going to get there doing what you're doing, unfortunately. So she's like what about this? So then my old boss, michelle Gonzalez. She called me.
Speaker 1:I remember Michelle.
Speaker 2:Michelle. Huge shout out to her. I would tell her every day. She changed our lives. I owe my life to her Great lady.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you a story about her in a minute.
Speaker 2:I would love to hear it. I met her and she just said are you sure you want to leave your job where you get to work, you know? From here to here, you get summers off.
Speaker 1:And turn it off when you leave the flip.
Speaker 2:And I was like you know what, michelle? Like I just always have known that I'm meant for like a huge purpose. I'm not, I'm getting there. I'm not really sure where it's at right this second because, it changes all the time. But I knew I was meant for something more, so she hired me on the spot. She's like when can you start? And I was like well, okay, well, first of all, I have, I have a class, so I need to get back to that.
Speaker 2:So I did everything correctly in my mind finished a school year off, went straight into mortgage on June 2nd of 2017. And I feel like I have blinked and I'm here now.
Speaker 1:Wow, no, and I believe it as a matter of fact. We were just talking about that before. I think we age faster because we're in this industry, but we also get to experience a lot more, if you do the right things, than most At young ages. I mean we're sitting in the room and we're all sub 40.
Speaker 2:Yes, right, yeah, okay, making sure. He looks young, we're all young, I'm the youngest probably Okay. Yeah, I'm like okay, good, at least I'm not the old one.
Speaker 1:You're the monkey in the middle. That's what we're going to call you. So, first off, super impressive. You guys both coming from industries that had nothing to do with finance and making your way into this industry, carving your own path. That's in itself is impressive, because a lot of folks coming to the industry that don't have any background in finance world take a little while to understand what loans even are, and then understanding the documents and understanding how to work, income and credit. They're each individually daunting tasks to understand and to learn. Now, story of Michelle. Here's this is something super funny, but totally true. So back in the day I was at Academy and gosh, I think we were doing 60 million or something like that, just with my team, and I get a call from Michelle Gonzalez. Okay, and at the time I had a borrower named Michelle Gonzalez.
Speaker 2:Oh goodness.
Speaker 1:And she says, hey, do you have time to meet today? And I'm like, yeah, no problem, let's meet at Pizzano's.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's her favorite spot.
Speaker 1:I'm going. My borrower wants to meet at Pizzano's. I guess she's going to send me documents. What have you? Nope, no problem, we aren't uploading documents and stuff like that just yet. So I show up to Pizzano's and it was Michelle and her right hand man at the time short, bald guy kind of beefy.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was like I saw a ghost, literally. I'm walking in thinking I'm meeting my borrower and here's Michelle with her recruiting hat on and I'm like, oh my God. So I had to sit through that little meeting with them and at the end I told them. I said I'll be honest, I had no idea this was you guys. I thought I was texting with a borrower. I feel bad, I'll pay for my own lunch Like I'm not interested. But true story. True story and literally the first time ever, I was like ale white, so any who. I'm excited to get into this topic today and we've got plenty to talk about. But it was derived from a post that went out and lately I've been I'll call it this my pocket full of fucks. They're out, I'm over it.
Speaker 2:You don't have any more left.
Speaker 1:I've got zero left for the folks looking for low hanging fruit. I'm over the marketing, the incorrect way. That overall makes us all look bad, in my opinion, because it causes confusion, it causes disbelief, it causes unnecessary hindrances in borrower's minds when they're already going through a tough process. That being the case, I mean, what are you guys seeing out there? And we're just talking about social media today, because obviously YouTube's its own animal and all the other platforms that you can have have their own nuances to them, but with social media Facebook, instagram, tiktok there's just a lot of misinformation and leveraging the wrong information without disclosure. That, in my opinion, is going to end up hurting us all, to be honest and I will tell you I'm passionate about this because I grew my business based on social media, doing it the right way. So what are you guys' thoughts on this stuff?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that on social media I've got a lot more understanding for the real estate agents because they don't have access to the information like we use lenders. But when I see lenders doing it, that's when it's a real problem. I think that they are doing it just to try and make the phone ring as low hanging fruit. It's out of desperation, and what ends up happening a lot of times is they're not the one getting the call. The real estate agent texts their trusted loan officer hey, is this accurate? And then we're having to clean up their messes and explain no, that's not true, you're missing all this info on there. But a big one that I see is the temporary buy downs. It'll be like, oh, my client got a 4% rate or 3% rate. I'm like, yeah, that's a 321 buy down.
Speaker 3:Like make sure you're disclosing that that's not where rates are at. You're going to get people thinking rates are in the threes right now and they're not Maybe for the first three years, but it's really just prepaid interest.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right.
Speaker 3:And so I think that's a big one that I see on social media a lot.
Speaker 1:That was a huge craze and I think every lender is looking to have the edge, the advantage, over any other lender when I'm here to tell you today that the real edge is the knowledge that the loan officer has the team that stands behind them, their product mix and what they can offer, and their ability to navigate through guidelines. To be honest, as far as bond loans, construction loans, all of these different things, we all pretty much offer the same Service is what separates us from everybody else, and if we want to go into banks versus mortgage bankers versus brokers, we can, but even still, it's just the level of service. Do you want to work with a paper pusher? Do you want to work with somebody that, when the shit hits the fan, they know how to get that shit?
Speaker 2:off the fan Correct.
Speaker 1:So the rate buy down, that's a big one, because people aren't truly understanding how it works. And then they're leading with that with their buyers without even talking to the lender, and what it does is it makes it difficult for us to structure that deal, knowing the real content behind the borrower's profile, credit assets, et cetera. In many case scenarios it ends up being a gimmick, in my opinion. I've ran many scenarios since I started originating again. I've ran many scenarios because the realtor led with the 2-1 buy down and me I jump on a zoom call with them, share screen, pull up calculators. I'm a nerd with it.
Speaker 1:So it's like, okay, I know you came to me for the 2-1 buy down, but let's make sense of this, because if it makes sense then yes, let's move forward. But if the dollars don't align with what your goals are, chances are you shouldn't go with this option. And those are the conversations that are not being had. So for a moment I want to just shift to kind of talking just on the lender side and then after that we'll talk about the real estate side, because there's only so much we can do on the real estate side. They're not governed by the same folks that we are. They're not oversight by CFPB like we are.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say that too. I don't think that they have to abide by as many rules as we do, so that's what makes our jobs even more important, because we're like, hey guys, this sounds good, but this is the realness behind it. You know, what I mean For me personally. I'm in a realm where I work a full builder pipeline.
Speaker 2:I'm a choice lender, for Bees are Homes and I also do second looks for pretty much everybody here in San Antonio. So there's a difference and, coming from a lender perspective, there's a big difference in advertising new builds and incentives and buy downs and all of these things and then a retail world.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So that's where-.
Speaker 1:Do you mind explaining that? So for example- Because there's a lot of folks out there that are like what does she mean by that?
Speaker 2:And thank you because it is different. So how I try to explain it to my rotors that I work with that, I'm like, hey, I'm a one-stop shop, so pretty much I'm going to tell you how it works on this side and I'm going to tell you how it works on that side. Same with my buyers. So when it comes to builder world right now I mean me personally I'm going to be advertising some of these buy downs that we're doing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely but guess what?
Speaker 2:I also have 5%, 6% sometimes in closing costs that I'm able to do all these things with. That's right Well unfortunately, because of the builders and how they have it set up, it's not always going to be the same for everybody. Correct, so like if they're working. I mean, this happens to us all the time, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I've been.
Speaker 2:You know, we've gone up against each other, things like that. So the thing is is that we have to first realize that there are differences.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So how can I? I mean, I can advertise these things and I can say you know, as a choice lender, you are able to get up to 5%. So I'm very mindful of the things that I write because I want to promote my builder, of course.
Speaker 2:Of course, that's why they want me. It's because I'm promoting them. You know, I bring in business, yep, and, but I also bring it in by utilizing what they're offering, correct Whereas maybe another lender or let's say, I'm working on another builder deal that I'm up against their lender, right, um, I in my head already know, like, what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So I can make it make sense, but a lot of people lack that knowledge.
Speaker 1:No, I agree 100% and I appreciate you being honest with that. Um, and just to sum up, what she was saying is in a layman's terms is she's not playing apples to apples with us. In many cases, sometimes, yes, and and why? Because she's got a, a kitty full of money that the builder, instead of lowering their price, have shifted over to the lending side, and in many cases, it's not even on your closing disclosure. Why? Because the money was behind the scenes. Um, there's nothing wrong with that, because there hasn't been any regulations passed for it. Uh, mind you, another discussion, should that be the case. It's another world. At the end of the day, they've got better lobbyists than we do as mortgage bankers.
Speaker 2:Well, and one thing I do want to plug about Beezer Homes and why I chose because there's a journey with all of us. Sure, why I chose to work with Beezer Homes was because they do have a mortgage choice program, so I like this where it's not just oh go with me and you get all these things. I actually have to teach my buyers again how to shop lenders, because they make you shop lenders, and I love that, because not only does it keep me on my game, but it also allows me to teach people like hey you.
Speaker 2:You have an amazing opportunity here and it's not always going to be me.
Speaker 1:Well that's, that's a. That's a very cool sales tactic, especially when you know that others can't compete. I mean, at the end of the day, it goes shop around. There's no one in the world that can touch this, and that's pretty cool to be able to do that and have confidence behind it for the consumer to see that instant true value, yes, whereas in a case where you are not, you're working a retail deal. Yeah, exactly, cause.
Speaker 2:I can go total opposite to you.
Speaker 1:You got to flip script on it and put yourself in a different seat on that bus, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that's tough, that's tough, and there are times where they're bringing in their OSL, their outside lender, and they're like this is. You know, I've worked with this guy for 20 years. This is that, and you know it's all about education at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:Correct, correct.
Speaker 2:So I win them over, because it's not about winning winning the game. It's about hey, this is where we're at for this particular property for you, you're going to be my buyer for life, right, but this is how we're going to maximize builder credits to get you the best deal.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so.
Speaker 2:I don't think about anybody else.
Speaker 1:No, nor should you, to be honest.
Speaker 2:This is what I've got and it is what it is. And then you know, going on to the next side, which is the realtor or the retail side, sometimes you have no credits, you have nothing Correct, so it is, but you can't. You can't advertise a three, two, one buy down, because a builder has to pay for that.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:And people don't know that.
Speaker 1:Correct, so, but they're still toted on the social media world. They'll put it on the line and get the comments going and it's just. I don't know we can get back to that. So, the concept of this misinformation I've seen posts from like we saw I've got funds. I've got no, what was the post itself? I've got bond funds available at five point seven five.
Speaker 3:So it said specifically DPA funds.
Speaker 2:DPA.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you, that one caught my attention too, yeah and I meant zero disrespect to the person, but it was incorrect. It was incorrect because in me reading it I'm going okay, you've got down payment assistance at five point seven. What other program is there that I'm not aware of that we have not jumped on, because I pride myself in being able to offer all those texts that even though the branch doesn't make a ton of money on them, I still want to be able to offer them to everybody. But when a program says no DPA for this rate, there's no down payment assistance included in that. So for you to tote that there is DPA, it gets the wheels turning on all those referral partners that we've built relationships with that now second guess what we just told them.
Speaker 1:Maybe that same day you had a conversation with a realtor that, yes, you can get a bond fund at six point something, percent, seven, percent. But then somebody coming back behind you and they see that we're all in the same groups, we're all in the same social media group. So they see that and they second guess you when, at the end of the day, that's incorrect information. Yeah, there's a lot of that going out there. You guys have any examples of that?
Speaker 2:Well, with that one in particular, you even caught my attention on it, and I am one of the type that stand back a little bit. I don't like to revel feathers that much, especially where I'm at in life right now, like I'm 35.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know I want to do these things and I want to say stuff, but at the end of the day I just kind of pick my battles. But I noticed you said something.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm a disruptor.
Speaker 2:And it's okay because this one I also felt it because during COVID and all these things like I felt that pressure again. It just came back to me, so I was like I feel like I need to say something on this one, but what I think what gets me the most, is that those items are available online.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So like you can literally snip that, put that as your post.
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 2:You know just an idea. It's not like what you're doing is bad, because it's not it has good intentions. We all want to help people.
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 2:But do it with the proper material you know. Be resourceful, Like I would tell my fourth graders be resourceful, Get your little chart and explain how this works and where people can go to learn more information, especially if you're not an expert.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think that that has a lot to do with it is we've got a lot of folks, especially in this part of our industry, or this time in our industry, to where there's not a ton of business going around like there was, and the new to the business loan officers trying to figure out their way.
Speaker 1:They're trying to figure it out and I have no issues with that. I did the same thing growing up into this business, but I was always very cognizant of what can I say and what can't I say, because I toted the line. I mean, I'll be honest, I was a bit outlandish back in the day, but it worked for me. They're like who puts their face on a truck Me, you know. Did it work? Well, you just asked me about it. So, yes, it worked. And in those instances it's just it's unfortunate that their mentors or their crew around them is not saying, hey, be careful, because at the end of the day, you are hurting us as other lenders, you're hurting your buyers with misinformation. But CFPB I don't know what their statute of limitation is. They can go back as far as they want to pull posts and say, hey, we got you. Now you have a year, two years license penalty and you can't originate. Could you imagine that? I mean I couldn't. I mean I couldn't.
Speaker 2:Post from 2018. Oh, absolutely yes.
Speaker 1:And once it's online, people can snap it. You know, now, I am not the type to turn anybody into CFPB. That is not what I'm here to do, and I don't think anybody out there maliciously does either. It's just a matter of they're watching. They're skimming our Facebooks, they're skimming all of our social platforms. Each company should have some type of internal filter that allows you to run it through to make sure that there aren't any trigger terms, that you're not misleading that many different things within that. I was thinking of another one that I saw recently.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's so many. What was?
Speaker 1:the first thing I told you.
Speaker 2:Whenever you were like, do you want to do this? And I was like, what did I say? We're going to get eaten alive.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2:So again, I don't think anything is malicious. It's just more of things that I see are just people posting payments zero down. I love all those things we can now do 580 and above.
Speaker 1:Well, we all could. At the end of the day, maybe your company put an overlay because the investor that they had, that bought those loans, is now putting restrictions on you guys. Why, who knows Behind the scenes, maybe you had some loans go bad in that category. Maybe your company doesn't have enough reserves on with that wholesaler or with that investor. There's many reasons.
Speaker 2:So many aspects.
Speaker 1:But they come and go. It's not a matter of we offering it. You don't type situation in my opinion, ben, you got anything to add on that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say I've always been very careful about what I post. It's just how I was trained and just not something I want to mess around with. But you see, so many of these posts, and the ones from loan officers specifically, I've always been told you have to post the APR. So if I do post it, maybe I'll say something like rates are in the sixes or the five.
Speaker 1:Correct General.
Speaker 2:It's not an actual rate quote.
Speaker 3:But if I'm saying, hey, rate of 5.75, you're supposed to post the APR too, and that's a big problem too. There's maybe three points on there and they're not telling people that, and it goes back to the same thing where it's like okay, well, who's actually paying for it? Oh, you're right, flex money or seller concessions or builder credits or something to cover it. Yeah, that's a great deal, but not everybody's going to have that, and I see that all the time where people don't post the APR and stuff. That's why I generally don't post rates. If I do, I'm going to make sure I post the same here.
Speaker 1:Now JC, go to the reference screen. I want to pull something up and we can talk about it, because I found a pretty cool tool. In Matter of fact, there it is Boom. So if you go to Google everybody and literally type in mortgage rates today, you scroll down just a tad, there's this little graph or this tool that Google created, and I think it was almost around the time that bank rate was getting sued for bait and switch, and what this does is, first off, I'm going to read the disclaimer. It says these there it is. These mortgage rates are estimated by third parties using industry averages for owner-occupied properties and do not include refinance options Rate may. Rates may vary based on availability and lender approval.
Speaker 1:So I went a bit further and I have an actual Google rep because we run so much through review my mortgage on Google ads. So I reached out to him and I said where are you guys getting this stuff? They said we actually every day get a report on averages around the United States from mortgage companies on what people are actually locking in rates for. That way it spits out the right information to the consumer forefront. So we're going to look at this and just put an example on the screen 5% down, 300,000 in Texas. Let's say it's a 740 credit score. And then let me go ahead and throw USDA, fha and USDA up there. So now you can see, without points, what people are actually locking in the day prior to notice. This was on the fifth, today is the sixth. This will probably air next week, but regardless, this in itself is a bit different than what you would see by going to, let's say, a bank rate.
Speaker 1:You go to bankratecom, you do that same little scenario 300,000. Boom, we go 5% down. Oops, not 50. 5% down. We go 740 credit, 30 year. Looks good, looks good. So now we're playing the bait and switch game. We've got a Lyant mortgage that's showing 6% interest rate, but it shows here a 1.828 charge in points. But even more so, what they're not showing you is the rate assumptions. What I mean by rate assumptions is let's go to Wells Fargo. I was showing this to a customer yesterday. If you go to Wells Fargo, here is their 30 year fixed mortgage that shows you a 6.5, which is different than the 6% that we just saw, but at the same time they at least have their rate assumptions right here. Boom. So this is assuming that you're putting down 20%. 740 credit score. It tells you where in the United States they quoted this loan. So it's all based on the specifics of this actual scenario. 740 credit score these are the discount points in Texas, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:So by the time that that customer applies, submits their documents, everything else, the rate is not the same. But why they change daily, multiple times in a day. We know that, but consumers don't. And what bank rate was doing is essentially they were showing all these rates and then by the time the customer uploaded documents, everything else, the rate is different. And customers unfortunately don't know that they can shop once they've submitted all their documents, feel like they've gone too far and they don't want to start the process over. And sometimes, let's say, you started working with that borrower day one, you quoted them something you explained to them that can't lock until you're actually under contract because we're actually reserving funds, et cetera. So they're off looking and then they stumble upon a well as far to a bank rate, anything like that. They go that route and then they're too prideful or too embarrassed to come back because you told them up front that, hey, you can see stuff online that is going to be lower, but make sure to pay attention to the points. Blah, blah, blah blah.
Speaker 1:And what I like to tell folks is, if you call anywhere and ask them what's your rate today and they give you a rate run why? Because if you saw the back end of what all goes into distributing an interest rate to a consumer, it's ridiculous. You're talking anything from zip code to number of stories. There's just so many things. You guys use Optimal Blue. Yeah, I mean, it's like whoa. So I don't know. That kind of drives me insane seeing all of that stuff go down. But then when it correlates to social media world, for some odd reason it's the gospel and it drives me insane. So, that being the case, let's jump into some more different stuff. So we've got transparency on the docket. We've got giving all under bad name. Okay, so contracts. I like that. I like that topic. Ben, you put on here contracts. What'd you mean by that?
Speaker 3:Let's talk about it. Yeah, I'll give you a specific example.
Speaker 1:I think that during so now we're jumping on the real estate side, guys, just so you know we're transitioning a little bit.
Speaker 3:And during COVID we saw a lot of people starting to waive appraisals and there's a specific form. A track form says right on there not for FHA or VA. We still get those contracts all the time. And I'm like, hey, if the buyer's agent's going to pull a fast one on them and it works, cool, but that's just not going to hold up.
Speaker 1:I call it pencil whipping. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:But there's a lot of confusion behind that and then the agents wouldn't really explain well, like what that means. They're like what do you mean? I have to pay for you for an appraisal. We waived the appraisal. I said no, you waived your appraisal contingency, but we still need an appraisal. If the appraisal comes in low, you still have to buy that home.
Speaker 3:That's what you signed off on and unfortunately, a lot of times real estate agents wouldn't explain that to the customer and we'd be the bad guys explaining to the customers like that's what you signed. Like, let's cross our fingers and hope that you don't have to come up with an extra 30 grand or more to cover the difference here. So that's a big one. I also heard from some agents like oh yeah, my lender can waive VA appraisals or FHA appraisals. I'm like no, they can't. That's not a thing. Like they actually had me set and guessing myself. I looked at it.
Speaker 2:I looked at it. You're like wait, let me ask somebody, I'm not crazy, there's no way.
Speaker 1:So you know stuff like that and I think that maybe so let's pause right there on the waving of appraisals so we can get the record straight. Waving of appraisals for those of you that are listening out, there is something that is number one false. You can't waive an appraisal fee Now. The lender can pay it upfront, but it still will be collected at closing, whether they've got closing costs paid by the seller or not. There's an invoice that is paid for. So let's say, for example, that borrower wanted to switch lenders in the process after the appraisal was already back or returned by the appraiser. They would then need to pay for that appraisal to let us release it to the next lender, etc. Etc.
Speaker 1:And the reason why we collect appraisals upfront is because, number one, it's third party. It's not us that are actually controlling that appraisal. We shoot it to an appraisal panel. Most of us use an appraisal or an AMC service that then goes in a round robin or a bidding system to see who can get it done the fastest, etc. But there is still a fee for that. And if, let's say, the appraisal comes back low with repairs, let's say the borrower does something through the transaction that deems them not qualified for the loan anymore, well, you'd have a whole bunch of appraisal fees that the mortgage company is eating without any kind of rectification of a closing. You know that that's intended for us to actually close on that loan and recoup that fee. Now, with VA loans, most lenders will choose to pay that for the buyer upfront. It's not waiving it. Now I have seen social media posts that say we'll waive the appraisal. You're not waiving anything.
Speaker 1:Or waive all fees, oh man. You want to get into that one. I love you, conno. So the concept behind that is it's very deceptive and in my opinion it's unwarranted and we as the experts have to start singing louder than them. But because once you've got misinformation that spreads, let's say that that 5.75 post goes out further and nobody calls it out. Now, all of a sudden, two weeks later, that post is still there and somebody's referencing back to it Still trending.
Speaker 1:But the funds are gone. There's no funds available for it. So it makes us look very bad, it makes us look incompetent and it makes us look like the liars, when, in fact, this post is what is stirring the pot. When you've got a whole bunch of people believing a lie, the lie begins to be the truth, oddly.
Speaker 2:We start second guessing ourselves, right Like what.
Speaker 1:It's odd, it's super odd. So I guess let me ask you guys have you guys ran into any situations where you've had to defend this recently against, let's say, a referral partner that you've been working with, a buyer themselves that actually sees this, either social media or on the internet? Because, let's face it, headlines are all over the place. One day the sky is falling, the next day it's the best day ever to buy a home. Why and where it's coming from. From the media side, I have no idea. I believe that media is bought into the concept of making America a renters nation. Why? Because they're controlled by the folks that are buying the homes and renting them. To be honest, in addition, I mean, you've got BlackRock that's not even representing the amount of homes that they're actually buying, because they've got LLC under LLC. Under LLC, they're packaged within each other. So yeah, have you guys experienced that against a borrower or a realtor lately?
Speaker 2:I think personally, one that I've always dealt with over the years, I think because I come from the teacher background is a lot of those special programs. Special programs are always great and they're always there, but a lot of times they're like, oh, you could get a teacher grant. I hear that one a lot and I'll even say there's programs available for teachers. Obviously you have to qualify, but it just goes back to. I always have to remind I'm very choosy now who I work with. So I've learned from those mistakes, I think, over the past eight years Now. Yes, I do the teacher program and my rotors are able to speak about it, but they also know the repercussions of you need to say these things so that they don't think oh, I'm a teacher, I automatically get this because or a doctor program or whatever, maybe because we all do them.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. I'm nothing special, it's just. Yes, I may have some more things in common with the teacher, but that's a big one. I see are just the special programs.
Speaker 1:That's a good point. I mean two points that I want to cover.
Speaker 2:They are eye catching.
Speaker 1:You've got. First I'll touch on the doctor program. That doctor program, we all offer it to a certain extent on a broker type basis. They're going to be considered non-QM, non-qualified mortgages. In addition, they're adjustable rate mortgages. But what I have coming to me because of all the posts about it is a doctor that is working W2 at a hospital coming to me asking for that type of loan and I have to educate them saying, hey, that's not for you, that's for, like, a resident that's not currently actually making W2 money. Maybe they've got ownership in the company and it hasn't come to fruition yet.
Speaker 1:The intent is to kind of put everything on a lower basis because we know they're gonna make more money and the investors taking the big risk on that, to be honest. The other is the teacher program. Are there teacher specific programs out there? Yes, every once in a while there's a teacher specific program that comes about, but for the most part it is lenders calling a basic program a teacher program or a firefighter program, or you know what you? You you're a trash man, so we're calling it the trash man program or whatever the case.
Speaker 1:As a matter of fact, we created a within man mortgage, the Manny 100, which, when we got together for the marketing it was like so what do we call in this thing?
Speaker 1:And our program manager said call it whatever the hell you want, just make sure you use the right disclosures and disclaimers. But it can be a teacher program, any of these things, no income limits, etc. And we were like what the heck? Okay, well, let's let's do that for the marketing purposes of it, knowing that it's our own down payment assistance with no income limits that we offer through a click and close another investor. But you'll see folks Toting that line of I've got a teacher program that is specific to us and we can only offer it, etc. So the realtors see that and they go yep, I want, I want to go with that program for my buyers. Guys, we've all got them. And I think that is kind of the premise of all of this discussion is I don't believe that others have something that others don't. For example, with you mortgage, you guys have the ability to go non QM with some deals, correct.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:You guys same same. It's more work, less pay. But do we have it? But we can do absolutely. Yes, there are more loan officers that are Experienced in these type programs versus not. I'll be honest, I didn't do any non QM loans until probably about two years ago. Mm-hmm, two years ago was when it was like okay, what is DSCR? Bank statement loans? 1099 starting to get.
Speaker 1:We had to that's exactly correct, and they're toting them as if they're pro grip. Nobody has access to Angel Oaks. I mean, what the heck? No, angel Oaks works with all of us. Matter of fact, the rep comes around and talks to all of us to try and get more business. So, ben, give us some more, man, give us some more about this stuff here.
Speaker 3:You know, I think that the media is a big problem too. Yeah, and this isn't so much a recent thing, but it's something I wrote down as a topic. You know, I think you guys remember during COVID, the feds lower in rates. Media is blasting. Interest rates are at zero percent right and I'm getting phone calls getting blown up from borrowers, people, my pipeline.
Speaker 3:I've locked them in at a great rate of mm-hmm 2.75 and they're like hey, ben, you know I saw on the news rates are zero, could you just adjust my rate to zero percent? And we're going. No, interest rates are not zero. That's the federal fund rate. We're having to explain all of this stuff and you know the banks still have to make money. There's got to be an interest rate on there. And you know, I think that's a lot of our job is just kind of clean up the messes that media makes and you know, sometimes it's it's industry people, unfortunately, right. But that's an example that comes to mind. Is you know when, when interest rates were zero percent? And we still joke about it to this day? Yeah, of course interest rates were not zero percent, right?
Speaker 2:Right now everybody gets a house everybody.
Speaker 1:Exactly exactly Now that. That being the case, we're probably going to see something very similar to that as rates start to come down. I don't think that there's going to be another cut until halfway through the year. I felt that that was going to be the case simply because if we start cutting rates now, we're going to have another issue of inflation again, and it'll happen quickly. Especially, being in Texas and more people are coming here, they'll jump off of that fence real quick once they get into a certain whatever they get and whatever they deem comfortable for their payment or to wrap their head around. Um, I still think that we're not going to see a lot of of Inventory hit the market, which is why new construction is going to prevail for a little while. Um, that being the case, I mean, what do you guys see with the market moving forward? After you answer this, then I want to jump back over to this over here so we can go over some social media do's and don'ts and and and dids and dids.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you nailed it. I mean we're already seeing Kind of a boom, at least I feel, in in Texas, in san Antonio. I mean it's january, february. We're seeing, you know, a lot of activity and rates are at where they're at right now. You know, if they start going down, if the media starts going, rates are dropping. Um, it's going to create a lot of issues and and that's, you know, part of the reason why we're cleaning up the mess. What we are now is because it happened too quickly, too fast, too extreme and, um, hopefully we don't have to deal with anything like that again, but I'm glad to see the market picking up, yeah.
Speaker 3:I wish there was more inventory. I think a big problem is that a lot of people are sitting on low rates and they don't. They want to move but they don't want to sell, because then they have to buy with a higher rate and they just can't. They can't do the math in their head for it to make Sense, right. But if rates move down, maybe just a little bit, you know, maybe half a percent, a full percent, I think we'll see more inventory. But it's going to become another buy-in frenzy again.
Speaker 1:I think that's pretty much inevitable. No, I, I agree with you on that. Yeah, anything to add?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean I'm I'm grateful, and I think that's why I Maneuvered back into the builder world, because I stepped away for a little while last year. It took some time off, and Is that what you're calling that? Yeah, it took some time.
Speaker 3:I like that I take about a year off. I like that Sounds great.
Speaker 2:I still worked.
Speaker 1:I don't know you to not be able to work.
Speaker 2:I don't like how can I take a year off and I still do really good, but um no, I really took a year off and but it gave me time to think about these things, so I knew where we were in the market and I think it was a perfect year for me to take some time Because.
Speaker 2:I didn't have to, you know, deal with a lot of this stuff that a lot of other people did, but I still watched the market, um, but I'm really loving where I'm at now Because I feel like this is my time to thrive with this type of market. I agree because I'm very good with you know the threes, the fours, like I could sell that stuff all day. But this is actually what I really love.
Speaker 2:Like I want people to know like you can still thrive in this market for the next you know, six to nine months. I feel very secure, knowing that I'm going to do well, because I know how to sell a product so freaking good that buyers are.
Speaker 1:They don't even second guess and I think that that, uh, that is a reoccurring Um trend that I'm seeing with the guests on the show is we're all experts. This is where we have the opportunity to shine, to show our expertise, to show our ability to educate not necessarily sell. It's more education than anything these days. Um, kind of, like ben said, teaching a customer the the ins and outs of how this actually works, versus them seeing an online formulating their own opinion of how this looks to them on the outside, then going through it and having this totally misconception of the real process. That being the case, I believe we're going to see a lot of people not renewing their license this year because the market is tough and it kind of Uh encompasses what we're talking about with the social media posts. Is you? You're seeing people doing those types of posts or that type of social media marketing, and I think you said it earlier out of desperation, to be honest.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately that is. It's emotional. I can tell just by reading somebody's post if it comes from an emotional standpoint, you know I mean whatever that may be for that particular person.
Speaker 1:Let's see loan officer renewals and the united states JC go to that reference tab boom, let's see if they give it to us in the united states, december 31st issued. I'd like to see if there's anything. Um, let me see here. Let's type in how many, how many loan officers renewed their license in 2024.
Speaker 2:I saw the realtor one, but I haven't seen the lender, same same I'm seeing.
Speaker 1:It's crazy, it's like Okay, so I think we've got some info here. It says in 2023, 3 10s of thousands of loan officers left the mortgage industry. In october of 2023, 67 percent of current loan officers Produced less than one unit of the chosen of closed loan 21 closed one and a half units per month and 12 closed greater than two and a half. And that that kind of rings true. Um, everywhere, at every company, you had your top producers that are used to making x amount every year. That went. Okay. I know how to do this. Let me roll up my sleeves, let me get back in the trenches, kind of like myself. Let me start producing again, because I can't just let my book of business call me um, and let me Show my level of expertise. You know it gave that opportunity for that, but I'd like to see what that actual number is. On renewals, I know it's somewhere, it's got to be somewhere. John Hudson was talking about it, uh, anywho, I know it's a staggering number.
Speaker 3:It was like 180 thousand licensed loan officers in 2021 and we're down to like 80 thousand right, it was almost half yeah insane.
Speaker 1:That's even personal people that I know that are no longer in this business. Yes so um and.
Speaker 2:I and.
Speaker 1:I also say for the new to the business loan officers, it does not mean that it's impossible, guys, it really doesn't. I think um Advice if I could give it, find a solid mentor. Um that be in the case. Listen to what they tell you. If they say, go back to the basics, go back to the basics why? Because they're probably doing that themselves and they know that it works. Um, there are Probably five I call them needle-moving activities that we, as loan officers, will withstand the the, the sense of time, which is open houses, pop buys, asking for turn downs. Um Maintaining a consistent social media presence. There are certain things that a loan officer can do Every single time. It all depends on how much of it you do. That that kind of turns the spigot on um. But I think a lot of loan officers are thinking that if they just post on social media they're going to get business, and that's not the case. It's not enough. Yeah, it's, it's just not enough. Um. What are you guys's thoughts on?
Speaker 3:that I think that, um, for some newer loan officers that are maybe gotten the business you know 2022, as rates started going up, they they may have kind of an advantage though, because they're getting in that's all they know like hey rates, rates were lower, but they're up and this is all I know. And I got to make calls, I got a hustle, I got to go to open houses and for those people I've seen some of them do very well, because this is all they know market like this and they're in for a pretty Sweet ride it's a lot better for them. I think where myself, personally, I struggled is I came off of this huge high where it was like I didn't have to make phone calls. I wanted my phone to stop calling at some point. I wanted a thing to stop ringing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah because it was just, it was so much and a lot of us got burnt out and we kind of looked forward to maybe a Little bit of a break or time off.
Speaker 1:Can somebody break the system for a moment, please, exactly.
Speaker 2:We'll talk about that bridge, yeah.
Speaker 3:And enough time has gone by where it's like, okay, we got to get back to work, correct, but we, we know the basics, we've done them before. We, you know, we, we know what to do. Right but it's just a bit of a shift for some of us that have been around longer versus newer guys Like this is all they know and that's right. What's a refinance, you know?
Speaker 1:that's true, and I'll compare it to back when I got in the business in 2012. I had a lot of mentors around me that would go, man, if you got in back in the day, you'd be retired by now, and I'm like, well, I didn't. This is all I know. I don't know charging points on the front, charging points on the back, making a head ripper, blah, blah, blah. This is all I know. So I know how to do it the right way and that's how I'm going to move forward with my career and the marketing aspect of things. Well, I tote the line absolutely, but at the same time, I'm not going over the line Because I want to do this for the long haul type situation. So I'd like to go over this article that I found goes along with our topic here, and maybe we can agree on some of these things. It's the do's and don'ts of social media for compliance teams and loan officers. It says you want your loan officer to earn more business, and I think that they're addressing this to mentors, leaders, branch managers, et cetera. You want your loan officers to earn more business, and social media is a great way to do that, but how do you make sure that they're not doing more harm to your institution than good.
Speaker 1:Social media is so woven into the fabric of our lives it's easy to forget that, while it feels casual for the mortgage industry, it's anything but. The rules that apply in the more formal communication channels also apply to LinkedIn, Twitter and even Facebook discussions. The ease with which loan officers can find people interested in their product and those same people can find you is a large part of the appeal of social media. Clients and potential customers feel at home on these platforms, and so do we. But for loan officers and compliance teams charged with monitoring them, the relaxation, the relaxed standards of loan officers may fall into when communicating on Twitter and not email can invite trouble Sometimes. They need reminding that whenever talking about business and regulations should never be far from their mind. The regulations protect the consumers, but they also protect your business, and I agree with that wholeheartedly. It's kind of like what we were just talking about here. So this goes into train your loan officers how to use social media responsibly, have clearly defined policies and procedures to refer to them.
Speaker 1:Often I don't think that that's being done at all, to be honest, because what I feel is happening is you still have a lot of old school branch managers that are not partaking in social media yet that are trying to coach it. It's like it's a tough thing to coach if you've never been in that world. You're just telling them post, post, post, post post, when it's not just post post, post. You've got to have boots on the ground to go hand in hand with those posts to back it up. Make sure the loan officers know the proper channels of approval for posting. So, right here, this is, in my opinion, super important because nobody is running shit through anything. They're just putting it out there and crossing their fingers and hoping that it works out for them.
Speaker 1:Direct your LOs to the marketing department at every stage of online outreach. Now, this is important because you've had a lot of mortgage bankers that have switched over to the broker side and brokers don't have compliance. They don't have all of the interwoven fabrics of a corporation that have your marketing department, your compliance department, et cetera, et cetera. They've got a system, they've got lower rates and very thin operations and everything else, but doesn't mean that they're better or worse than mortgage bankers. It just is what it is.
Speaker 1:Let's see here do not cherry pick your monitoring. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So here is where it gets into some of this stuff. Follow all social media profiles that pertain to your institution. No client there was a part in here that I read that kind of brought this home for it Poo-poo-poo should have written policies, procedures we know that already.
Speaker 1:To be effective monitoring, prepare Okay, right here. Be prepared for issues that may arise, okay, unwittingly. Los often post with reference to the amount or percentage of down payment or amount of financing charge without indicating required disclosures. Posts such as these would be considered advertising and in violation of the truth in lending TILA Regulation if that post does not include required disclosures on wayward posts could lead regulators to issue an action, leaving public marks on the company Loan officers profiles may be found to be incomplete, such as missing an MLS ID, company address or additional state licensing, among other things. Examiners may issue warnings and demand corrective actions for these profiles. Your firm should not only be checking the compliance violation part of the LOs, but also monitoring the social media for fraud and defamation. Criminals are adapt and recreate blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:But I think you get the concept of where this is going and it ties back everything that we were talking about to something that is legit. This is not just a blog post. This is actually pulling from regulations to give us a little bit of a layman's version of what we should and should not do and what we should and should not be looking for when it comes to these types of posts, excuse me. That being the case, what? How do I ask this? Do you believe and I wanna ask each of you do you believe that when you see posts like that, people should let them go and not comment and not say anything? Or do you feel like someone should say something? And, second part, are you open and willing to be that person? Because if you're not, you can always just message me.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's a good one, because I think about somebody like me and I think of somebody like you. So, in my opinion, I think you reaching out and being able to say that you may get a little bit more respect in terms of like if I were just at a random like- I'm stunning. Why do you say that I think because you have made yourself that person. Like hey, I'm here to help. I wanna do these things. I haven't really established that in an online basis.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? Because I'm a bad boy for life.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just social anxiety, like don't wanna be on camera, asano, he knows he's like Lindsey, you need to get out there. And I'm like I don't wanna talk to people. But to me it's just, it's not really about like what I mean. I think I lost my train of thought there.
Speaker 1:That's okay.
Speaker 2:I do that all the time, but like, if I were to, let's say that one example of that post that I posted with you.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I felt like you handled it well, but from my aspect, I feel like I don't know if I would have been that brave Gotcha, Because to me in my head, I'm thinking it, I know, you see it, you think it, you wanna say something, and I'm just learning. I think, as I get older for me, specifically because I care so much about what people say and do that I don't wanna hurt my reputation that I feel like if it came from me, it wouldn't be as well received as it is from you.
Speaker 2:So, like for me personally, I probably would have just maybe post either have would just moved on, because at the end of the day I've learned I can't help everybody.
Speaker 3:Gotcha agree.
Speaker 2:I get it, but if I see that people are posting, then I feel the need of like, maybe send them a message and say hey, I like this post. Don't get me wrong, I get where you're coming from. I know your true intentions but maybe this time around try it this way, whether they take that advice, that's what it is. But I think that's the teacher heart in me. It's like I'm not trying to hurt your feelings you have all the right intentions but like let's work together to do a right.
Speaker 1:Now I'll be honest I don't normally screenshot and then repost.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've never seen you do something like that. I don't normally do that. I don't think that was malicious at all and it wasn't.
Speaker 1:I blacked out the guy's name or that jazz. I will normally comment within their post letting them know hey, you're toting that line and I'm not the one that is reporting you or anything like that. But if you do and somebody looks at it now, they're looking at this whole group and I'm not trying to be in those crosshairs sorry. So I feel like it's more so protecting myself through them, if that makes sense. Or I could say I'm doing the Lord's work. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:And it all goes back to. We're all individuals and I'm learning that people you have good intentions but that person reading it didn't have good intentions of like your response. It didn't come from. Oh, this guy's trying to help me and guide me and work towards my business. It was an instant just like, no Like you know what I'm saying. Like stop. So I think you have like great intentions, like I do, but I think it's important for people like us to tell people these things.
Speaker 2:Like you can have the greatest heart Like I love that you're wanting to get people into homes.
Speaker 1:Like I love it.
Speaker 2:But there's a way to do it and let's start that now, because these new agents coming in, these new lenders that are coming in, you know, I want to set them up for success, Cause I think we're all at that time now Like it's not just about us anymore.
Speaker 1:It's about my legacy.
Speaker 2:What you know, my twin and I I never spoke on this, but Amanda and I are a 50-50 partnership. I have a dream. My dream is true right now.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:I have Amanda, who's a lone genius. I'm a lone genius and you know, I think just our number one thing is like have that thought process of it comes from the heart, out of love, out of respect. So what I say to you isn't to offend anybody.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I guess taking a step back, but people, online.
Speaker 2:It's so hard because they just automatically, you know, attacking.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I love that, like people came in and they like defended their friend and like I love that because that's how my people are.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But the whole aspect was not about that.
Speaker 1:Right, and to that point I.
Speaker 2:What was posted and how it was incorrect and how we should work better. You're on the money. That's all I wanted.
Speaker 1:My intentions were good 100%. They always are, but even more so I was. Maybe that person that posted thought they were also doing it with good intentions, of course, and that's why I approached it the way that I approached it. And it wasn't until I got the backlash within that little comment thing that I went okay, gotta snap this, gotta let everybody else know that. Hey, this is not right, this is not cool for us to do as lenders.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not personal, I'm sure that person is the greatest of the greatest.
Speaker 1:When I've got a loan officer, coming to me saying, hey, I'm glad you sent something on that post, because I had a realtor call me and say, hey, why aren't you guys offering this? When I get that, now I go. Okay, we can't tolerate that and hopefully, because I'm doing the right thing, I'll have others that also believe the right thing.
Speaker 2:have my back in that and that helps kind of decipher who works with you versus who doesn't.
Speaker 1:I agree 100% with that.
Speaker 2:Because at 35, I've said this online 2024, I'm only working with who I wanna work with. That's right so if they those people that I work with have the same process. Well build their clients. But I know and I didn't start in the builder world. So I get it Because it's like, oh, it's so easy. But you know, it's not it's not, and you know it's a lot of education.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Because at this point buyers are coming in. You know I wanna use this person and I love that loyalty.
Speaker 1:In addition, you guys are doing heavy volume. Casey Hampton is a good friend of mine and I've had her on previous show when we first started and we got to kind of peel back all the layers of the builder world and the builder financing side and I applaud her. She was very honest in that aspect of yes, it's taxing because there's so many deals that come through.
Speaker 2:And you have to work each of those deals, absolutely. And with this market choice program that I'm a part of, I've worked with many builders. Nobody has something like this. So I think I'm in a good place to where I feel I don't just get business, cause you know me, I sell source. Many deals I think I gave away 48 qualified buyers that close last year to realtors. Because I actually market myself as a builder Like I market for my builder.
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 2:Like people think I'm a realtor really Well.
Speaker 1:That's great that you say that, because I want to remind us lenders that Don't take my ideas. Well, no, no, no, no For years and years.
Speaker 2:Oh, I've always taken her.
Speaker 1:As a loan officer in today's world, you have the ability to market the same, if not more, than a realtor out there. You provide more to a realtor I don't care who it is by giving them a qualified buyer than anything else paying their tab for lunch and all this other crap.
Speaker 2:People already know you ain't gonna get anything like that from Lindsay.
Speaker 1:No no.
Speaker 2:But what you will get is a can I say the word us? You're gonna get a badass loan officer. That's gonna take care of your client. And guess what? You're gonna make $18,000 off this deal and I want you to take that money.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I want you to put it into the rest of what you wanna do.
Speaker 1:But by doing that, you and that realtor are now learning each other, learning how you do business. You're growing together. There's so much that comes from that other than just a paycheck, and that's how I built my business from 2012. Social media Didn't know any realtors at the time.
Speaker 2:Me neither.
Speaker 1:Austin Pantuso. That was it. It was like that's it. That's right.
Speaker 2:I remember those days.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you so Ben same question, man, about this social media stuff how do you feel about saying something versus not? What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say, like you said, it's not personal. At the end of the day, the person that gets hurt the most is the consumer and that's who I believe we need to protect, because Thank you for saying that it could affect their experience completely. They could be going okay, I'm gonna get this great deal with down payment assistance and then they see the numbers are like that's not the deal, like I had to spend all this time running numbers. It worked within my price point. Now this doesn't work, like somebody lied to me and it creates a trust issue. So I'm always gonna stand up for the consumer. I think that they need just accurate info. There's so much bad information out there. As far as the strategy calling it out more of my style was probably to message the person and say hey, like you said, great post. But I just I think you're misrepresenting the program in a certain way. Or maybe put your APR on there or something. Really, I'm looking out for them, right, correct?
Speaker 2:Or give them an idea. Right, Give them an idea. This is literally on the website. Let me show you the website.
Speaker 3:I mean it's our mortgage family or mortgage brothers and sisters and I'm looking out for them and I don't want them to get in trouble and I don't want the consumer to get hurt either. So I mean that's more of my style, is I'll message them. Do I do it every time?
Speaker 1:No, just cause it. Can you know? It's time consuming.
Speaker 2:I'm consuming, You'd spend all those years on one you would have to every single post.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a full time job, so I don't do that. But typically if it's somebody that I know and respect or trust and care about, I'm gonna message them. And you know that could be for anything too. Like hey, you made a typo on your post or whatever. I'm looking out for them and that's how I see myself going about it. It's not in a malicious way. I'm not trying to get them in trouble or hurt their business or anything. If anything, I'm trying to help them out. Like hey, I want you to be in this business for a long time and doing it the right way. I think that you should edit that post or maybe, you know, take it down or whatever the case, depending on what they post.
Speaker 2:Absolutely absolutely, and I think any router that you know really, truly cares about their business and wants to grow. Take that feedback.
Speaker 1:I would take that all day and be like, hey, that was a good idea.
Speaker 2:Next time I'm gonna do that, and it just makes you look even better.
Speaker 1:I agree, I do agree with that. So now last question, before I sum it all up with this mortgage national mortgage professional. It's a compliance concern and it goes through real quick, kind of what we were talking about. But it shows what they're actually looking for these days. But my last question before that would be how do you guys feel about realtors promoting mortgage stuff? We see it all the time. How do you feel about it? Who's brave?
Speaker 3:I'll let you go first.
Speaker 1:Stay in your lane stay in your lane, bro.
Speaker 3:There's. There's too many variables, there's too much information that you need to accurately quote rates. You can give generals, you can say, hey, on Google, these are the averages. Here's mortgage news daily. Read the disclaimer Stuff like that. But for the most part, like you know it's it's just gonna hurt the consumer as well and I don't think that's really gonna be the the the deal break breaker or maker that's gonna help you sell that home. Is that you're posting what rates are at? It's like no. I work with the best loan officers and here's their info. They can, they can dive deep in your situation and discuss that with you, and I'm not gonna get into how they should write a contract or anything like that. Right like, I think it's best when we stay in our own lanes and we respect the roles that we have, and that's my opinion on it.
Speaker 1:I like that. I like that, anything there.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think, because we all are seasoned, we have the same thought process. You know with me the people that I'm working with, they in my mind, or at least the ones that I do work with they already know how I am right. So it's like they know exactly what to do, like I tell them straight up, like hey, amanda and I are very good negotiators. Right so all I need you to do, realtor, is I need you to get your client and send them to me.
Speaker 2:Right because at the end of the day, I feel like number one. The goal is to have this realtor out getting business. I don't want them sitting here, you know, answering 1500 questions when I could pick up the phone in three seconds, absolutely tell them what they need or ask them what are their wants and needs, and then that's. I only focus on that. Yeah, everything else is a blur nowadays. I all the mess is gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah so focus. You know what is it that the buyer wants. My realtors know, once it's in my hand, it's with me. Until I tell them green light, this is where they're at. This is the house they want. This is a payment they want. Yeah, I mean, amanda and I have truly built a Business. You know Shelton team with Cherry Creek mortgage. That that's how we work. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:So there is no, and I'm not saying we're perfect, no we are very strict, right, and 2024 is all about Everything we do is with intention. Yep, everything we do has a purpose, because Amanda and I are very busy, so you know, as you should be as we should be but, we also have learned boundaries. And we also you know I'm a superstar mom. You follow me on Instagram. You see me everywhere. You're probably wondering how the heck does this girl even work, but it's because we have taught our realtors pre-recorded yeah.
Speaker 2:Pre-recorded. No, I just focus on what do I do best. Yeah, I do best teaching, so when I'm, that's what my part of this job is. Amanda does a lot of the back in. I'm good at that too, but that's where she wants to be.
Speaker 1:So we're in the perfect season. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's a, she's a great negotiator. So my thing is the realtor trusts us that you just get the buyer to us because, you should not say anything, you should not be giving you know payments. Oh, this is where you want to be like.
Speaker 1:Let us do that Absolutely you don't want to be liable. Yeah, and at the end of the day they're gonna at the end of the day they're gonna believe the realtor over us, unfortunately, and that's when it becomes an issue and an additional hurdle for us sure, when we're trying to advise as the expert, looking at their full scenario versus the realtor that used a Downpayment assistance post to attract this buyer, that they actually don't now qualify for downpayment assistance.
Speaker 2:So I feel like you know that's why I'm choosy. I work with some seasoned loan officers, even some newbies, mm-hmm because they know the importance of that part is the only importance. Yeah because at the end of the day, you can show them all these things, you can do all these things, you can sell a beautiful product as a builder, but if that payment and that loan isn't what they want, you just wasted.
Speaker 1:So much time. Absolutely, I could have gotten that up for yeah stay in your lane.
Speaker 2:You know I'm always get them to us. Yeah as soon as Amanda and I talked to them, I mean we have cost sheets every home that they go look at. I mean we go above and beyond this. Like my goal Is, the realtor is gonna be like, oh wow.
Speaker 1:Why you guys are sitting these seats today. Yeah, I mean it's, it's not Random. What exactly?
Speaker 2:and again, it's not saying I'm perfect. You know I don't produce. You know 50 loans a month and closings anymore I'm not that person.
Speaker 1:according to statistics, no one is yeah, and I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2:I don't know my boss, jason in Houston. You should look at business numbers. I'm like dang, but I I've realized that I don't want that like we. We want to be with the people who think the way we do that Stay in their lane that you're the expert with the homes. I'm not over here selling homes, I'm helping payments, yeah, and I, and I take all the inventory that I have because I'm very I'm very hands on with my people.
Speaker 2:So I mean we help structure together and this does not have to do with a borrower Correct, we're coming to the borrower with the solution to what they want.
Speaker 1:You've got the goods.
Speaker 2:I got the goods.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Amanda's gonna get mad cuz I gave away all the secret sauce. But at the end of the day is just listening.
Speaker 1:It's true, it's not about us asking the right questions and then listening 100% or two like trust in your partner loan officers Right in realtors are not doing enough of that these days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, interesting, yeah trusting that hey you got your job. I know you can do it. Let me do mine, and when I tell you you were good, you don't question.
Speaker 1:Yeah and we go. Yep, I agree with that and you got to build that rapport with them first. But at the end of the day, you are correct.
Speaker 2:And it's so worth it. So worth it Builder world and retail world.
Speaker 1:So let's look at this real quick and see if it's even worth our conversation. So it says compliance concern. In addition to state laws governing mortgage Advertisement, at least two federal regulatory agencies prosecute mortgage lenders for deceptive advertising. According to the Consumer Financial Protective Bureau which is CFPB for short acronyms we love those Most violations fall into four categories. Here's the most commonly four Categories potential misrepresentation about government affiliations, for example, ads containing official look seal, logos or having other characteristics that may be interpreted by the consumer as indicating a government affiliation. Seen this before? Potential inaccurate information about interest rates, for example, ads promoting low rates that may mislead consumers about the terms of the product Actually offered, or advertising rates that are not generally available. Bingo, that's the one right there. Potential misleading statements concerning the cost of reverse mortgages. I don't do those.
Speaker 1:We offer them, but I don't do them, so I don't really we can pass pass potential misleading misrepresentation About the amount of cash or credits available to consumers, for example, ads containing mock checks or suggestions that the consumer has been pre-approved to receive a certain amount of money in connection with refinancing their mortgage and taking out reverse mortgages, when the number of additional steps would be customarily needed To be completed before consumer would qualify for the loan. And I think that last one can be tied to many different things, especially like the builder side of things. Hey, we've got X amount of funds or this rate. When come to find out it's only on these three spec homes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to be very careful, but they're not governed by CFPB.
Speaker 1:So I mean, hey, if you see it, notice it, but know that we can't really do anything to them and commenting on it is almost a waste of breath. Air Breath, fresh air, either.
Speaker 2:One breath air, yeah breath of air, breath of fresh air that one too.
Speaker 1:Well, guys, I mean we are at the conclusion of the show. There were some good stuff talked about in here and hopefully it gives people the understanding that we are not out to get Anyone. We just want things to be on somewhat of an even playing field when it comes to regulations. What people are seeing, what they're in digesting, simply because the world isn't fair. The world that we live in is not fair. Never do I want it to be. I Don't want to go into politics or anything like that, but it's intended to be unfair so that the survival of the fittest are the ones that rise to the top, the ones that actually put in the work. Those are the ones that get to the top. You don't really get to the top without putting in the work.
Speaker 1:I've never seen it, I've never heard of it. I've interviewed, I've known many different people and have rolled in different circles that I'm not the smartest in the room. I like that why? Because they get to tell me their journey and they're happy to do that, and, and the one thing that I have found that connects everything is the hard work piece to this not making excuses, doing things the right that the right way and, additionally, working their ass off. That's kind of what gets us to where we are. So, that being the case, do you guys have anything to add to this? What would you, what would you give in way of advice, for lenders first, and then realtors go? I.
Speaker 3:Would say it's for lenders. Just, you know, be aware of what you're posting. Think of the industry as a whole and Don't be short-sighted. Don't try and just get that one one-off quick deal, like I personally, I want to be in this business for a long time and you know, just think of the bigger picture and Think of who's actually getting hurt when you misrepresent information Absolutely. And then for real estate agents, I would say just you know, use us more. We're happy to run the numbers for you, we're happy to pull the rates for you for specific scenarios, like, like, we have access to the exact scenarios that you're looking for. Don't, don't think you're bothering us, like, like, that's what we're here for. And use us and leverage us. And you know, don't get too involved in that side of the process, because that's what we do.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:I like that, lindsay yeah, I mean same thing, you know, when it comes to the lending side, obviously we take an oath. Yeah, you know what I mean. We take a note that our goal is to always be in the consumers. You know, favor, no matter who I'm with, no matter I'm related, you know, to these builders or these people or my realtors, they are number one.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:So I think, as a lender, always be mindful of the things you post. Always have that teacher heart, because, at the end of the day, just because I have a teacher degree doesn't mean that y'all aren't teachers at heart Too you are yeah you know, I just went to school for it. I had to pay that back, by the way, but you know what I'm saying. But, like, I think, if we all just lead with that as lenders because that's what we are, we're advisors- Absolutely.
Speaker 2:We're not. I mean, I'm not a loan pusher, no, like I'm actually digging in deep and I want to know these people's purposes and, like the long run, I want to be here forever you know the legacy. Our goal, or like our motto, is client for life.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So and then, when it comes to anything that I could tell a realtor is just you know, if you really want this to be part of something that you do, find the right resources to help you.
Speaker 2:I like that yeah because lenders like us can give you I mean you, you text me text mark tech. You know text bin like they'll. We'll give you something if you need it. Yeah we're like hey, if you want to know more about DPA programs, that's something that you're, that you feel like is a good niche for you and you have some buyers that fit those profiles. Let me tell you a little bit about it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely staying your lawn lane, but the more knowledge you can have, the better. You go back to that centralized what is our buyer need and want you know. So again, just go back to utilizing your resource and just being mindful. You know we have kids watching, we have families watching, we have people that are terrified to do this. Mm-hmm and when they see these things, it scares them. Yeah so to me it's like I think it's the one, me too. Like can we create a safe place? Like does it always have to be so aggressive?
Speaker 1:don't get started with that, safe, I know.
Speaker 2:I know, but that's why I'm here.
Speaker 1:You know, I can bring a little bit of a difference.
Speaker 2:Like I love everything, yes, but I'm saying if you, if, if you truly come from the heart and you're doing things in a good, positive way, god's always gonna give back and it's gonna go further.
Speaker 1:I agree with that.
Speaker 2:But definitely stand up like if somebody's getting bullied. Stand up. Yeah if you see somebody doing something wrong, tell them, because, at the end of the day, that's what this business is about.
Speaker 1:That's right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like I want to see your posts, I want to see y'all stuff like, because it makes me it only makes you a better lender Absolutely.
Speaker 1:It helps you hone in on the craft that you set out to be the expert in so I want people to take that away from this. I like that.
Speaker 2:I love that you're wrong and you're like this is the truth and it is yeah, and. I will be mindful, because we can't make everybody do stuff right. You can take it upon yourself to say when I post, I'm gonna make sure that I'm doing the best I can with this post.
Speaker 1:I like that. Well, thank you both for joining and being transparent in this discussion. I'm sure the listeners, watchers, gain plenty out of this. And if you didn't watch it again, because there was plenty to actually go around.
Speaker 1:I think the premise for this discussion Actually has to do with doing the right thing, even when people aren't looking, but for the most part, when they're looking. You need to do the right thing, and it's not just necessarily for yourself, it's for the benefit of buyers, for the benefit of realtors, for the benefit of the consumer directly. Just because you saw a post and shared it does not make it valid or true. Just because you saw a post on tick tock, where the person looked damn good and they had a good spiel and a great soundtrack in the background it was catchy as all hell doesn't make it true.
Speaker 1:I think double checking and cross referencing is something that consumers are just going to have to do these days. But when you find that lender, when you find that real estate team that you're working with, trust them. They've been there, they've done that and they're in the spot that they're in for a reason. You were recommended or referred to them for a reason. I think when we start getting Technology involved, kind of like Google, you can find what you're looking for, wrong or right. So the message here today is we've all got to kind of look out for each other so that we can thrive through this market and Level up, as we continue to do each day, for our consumers, for our referral partners and for those of us that are looking I mean, we're mentors at the end of the day, guys, I want to do what we do.
Speaker 2:That's exactly.
Speaker 1:And many think it's easy, but you saw as the the numbers of Renewals have dropped off the the face of the earth. You know it's not easy. So those of you that are jumping in this business, buckle down, find out what your basics are, rinse and repeat. That be in the case again, guys. Thank you so much for joining. I really appreciate it, and for all of you out there, make sure to like, subscribe, share with a friend, but until the next one, see you later.
Speaker 1:Welcome to key factors podcast, where knowledge meets ambition in the fast-paced world of real estate and mortgage. I'm your host, mark Jones, bringing you the latest insight, trends and expert advice to navigate this dynamic property market. In each episode, we dive deep into the heart of the industry, dissecting market movement, exploring investment strategies and unlocking the secret to real estate success. Whether you're a seasoned professional, an aspiring investor or simply looking to stay ahead of the curve, this is the ultimate guide to making informed decisions in the world of property and real estate. So grab a seat and let's uncover the key factors that make all the difference. Welcome to key factors podcast. Let the journey begin.